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Author Topic: Vatican issues new norms for apparitions  (Read 1869 times)

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Offline Cera

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Online 2Vermont

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Offline JJoseph

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Re: Vatican issues new norms for apparitions
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2024, 06:36:35 AM »
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  • Looks like some of the modernists in the Vatican want to do away with the supernatural altogether. Since one of the definitions of modernism entails the denial of the supernatural, that is hardly surprising. One of these people said: "the revelations that speak of the punishments from God are false"; thus implicitly denying not only approved and unimpeachable apparitions like Fatima and Akita, but basically attacking the Gospel itself, which was also revealed in miracles etc and other supernatural phenomenon, yet also did speak of "punishments from God", both eternal and temporal. If some of these Bishops were passing judgment on Christ's Ministry and had lived in the time of the Pharisees, they would probably reach the same conclusions as them. https://dsdoconnor.com/2024/05/17/on-the-vaticans-new-norms-for-discerning-apparitions/
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    "As you can see, “it is supernatural” is now removed; the “best” conclusion is now “nihil obstat;” i.e., nothing obstructs. Here is how the docuмent describes it:[/font][/size][/color]

    17. Nihil obstat – Without expressing any certainty about the supernatural authenticity of the phenomenon itself, many signs of the action of the Holy Spirit are acknowledged “in the midst”[18] of a given spiritual experience, and no aspects that are particularly critical or risky have been detected, at least so far.

    The remaining five conclusions that a Bishop may come to, regarding an apparition, are each in their own way at least somewhat negative. The sixth option remains the same as the traditional third; “22. Declaratio de non supernaturalitate – In this situation, the Dicastery authorizes the Diocesan Bishop to declare that the phenomenon is found to be not supernatural.”

    Although the docuмent of course does not say this bluntly, the take-away nevertheless seems clear enough to me: Bishops are encouraged to move against apparitions as quickly as possible, and they now have five separate ways of doing so; provided in hopes that they will feel comfortable with at least one of them. At the same time, they are reminded that they lack any real authority of their own here; their job is merely to do the grunt work of investigating apparitions, then submit their work to the Vatican, who can then graciously allow them to give some sort of a negative judgment or, at best (and I’m sure this will be exceedingly rare), give a “nihil obstat.”

    Many recent messages–that I am quite confident in the authenticity of–have warned that the Devil will soon act, in the Church, against the plans of God. I am not accusing this Vatican docuмent of heresy and I am not saying it is directly opposed to God. But what I am concerned about is that it will be used for precisely this purpose; used for putting an end to all these pesky prophets through whom God calls the Church to holiness and faithfulness, not to worldliness and “synodality.”

    Indeed, the men in the Vatican today generally do not want to hear the message of the prophets."

    Online Seraphina

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    Re: Vatican issues new norms for apparitions
    « Reply #3 on: May 18, 2024, 12:36:38 PM »
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  • This is yet another directive to be tossed in the bin.  A cursory glance tells you there’s no need of reading it.  

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Vatican issues new norms for apparitions
    « Reply #4 on: May 18, 2024, 03:57:16 PM »
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  • This is yet another directive to be tossed in the bin.  A cursory glance tells you there’s no need of reading it. 
    It's always better to know what the enemy of our Faith is up to. They are trying to get rid of Fatima and other approved apparitions which warn us of the great apostasy in the Church.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    Re: Vatican issues new norms for apparitions
    « Reply #5 on: May 19, 2024, 10:29:09 AM »
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  • Another danger of this is some traditionalists will respond in a reactionary spirit to this latest pronouncement, believing the legion false apparitions floating around today.  The devil drives hard to blot out the message of Fatima which clearly paints a bleak picture, devoid of warnings and illuminations.  Catholics will lose their faith and not even know it until it's too late to repent.  Take Our Lord's words to heart when He says that even traditional Catholics would be deceived in our time (the period proceeding the AntiChrist):

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    Matthew 24:23-25
    Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition

    23 Then if any man shall say to you: Lo here is Christ, or there, do not believe him.
    24 For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.
    25 Behold I have told it to you, beforehand.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: Vatican issues new norms for apparitions
    « Reply #6 on: May 19, 2024, 12:48:39 PM »
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  • It's always better to know what the enemy of our Faith is up to. They are trying to get rid of Fatima and other approved apparitions which warn us of the great apostasy in the Church.

    I agree. Anthony Stine, though he seems to have no problem with the new direction that the SSPX has taken, provides us with a view as to what Modernist Rome is up to. Archbishop Lefebvre kept himself apprised as to what Modernist Rome was up to, and we should too. Just my opinion.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Vatican issues new norms for apparitions
    « Reply #7 on: May 19, 2024, 04:23:44 PM »
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  • I don't have time for yet another grifter, without any qualifications to discuss the matters at hand -- and, sorry, but his name sounds too much like Stein for my comfort.


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Vatican issues new norms for apparitions
    « Reply #8 on: May 20, 2024, 12:41:54 PM »
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  • Everything goes but divine mercy cult. 
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Vatican issues new norms for apparitions
    « Reply #9 on: May 20, 2024, 04:04:51 PM »
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  • I don't have time for yet another grifter, without any qualifications to discuss the matters at hand -- and, sorry, but his name sounds too much like Stein for my comfort.

    Anthony Stine provides docuмentation for what is coming out of Modernist Rome. He also provides his take on it, which a lot of laymen do (whether "qualified" or not), but we don't have to pay a lot of attention to or agree with his opinions.

    The SSPX should be providing a sound analysis of all of the horrors coming out of Modernist Rome, but they just issue pablum on their DICI website. They don't want to offend anyone.
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Cera

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    Re: Vatican issues new norms for apparitions
    « Reply #10 on: May 20, 2024, 04:37:22 PM »
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  • I don't have time for yet another grifter, without any qualifications to discuss the matters at hand -- and, sorry, but his name sounds too much like Stein for my comfort.
    On what basis do you categorize him as a grifter? BTW he is not Jєωιѕн.
    Pray for the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Vatican issues new norms for apparitions
    « Reply #11 on: May 20, 2024, 05:59:24 PM »
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  • On what basis do you categorize him as a grifter? BTW he is not Jєωιѕн.

    Did I say he was Jєωιѕн?  I said I don't like the sound of his name.

    I have listened to him a few times and he's completely unqualified to be discussing the subjects he tries to "hold forth" on as some kind of authority.

    100% grifter ... just look up the term.