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Offline Incredulous

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Sanhedrin admonishes Bergolio
« on: October 11, 2021, 10:04:51 AM »
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  • While most of us have a tendency to tune him out, some folks are tracking Bergy and his bosses.






    Bergoglians grovel before their Jєωιѕн taskmasters

      Louie  September 17, 2021 
    Fb-Button


    Readers will recall that Jorge Bergoglio (stage name, Francis) was called on the carpet several weeks ago by the conciliar church Board of Directors (more commonly known as the Chief Rabbinate of Israel) for daring to strike a Catholic tone during his audience of 11 August wherein he stated:

    Quote
    The [Mosaic] Law, however, does not give life, it does not offer the fulfillment of the promise because it is not capable of being able to fulfill it … Those who seek life need to look to the promise and to its fulfillment in Christ.
    In response to this violation of the concessionary terms set forth in the Vatican II docuмent Nostra Aetate and further defined in related post-conciliar texts, the rabbis issued a citation in the form of a cease-and-desist letter addressed to Cardinal Kurt Koch, head of the Unholy See’s Commission for Obedience to the Jєωs.   

    The rabbis made it clear that they expect the Captains of Newchurch to strictly adhere to the conciliar agreement by firmly and publicly rejecting authentic Catholic doctrine concerning the Mosaic Law, which, according to their understanding, “had been fully repudiated by the Church.”  
    Specifically, the letter called for steps be taken so “that any derogatory conclusions drawn from this homily are clearly repudiated.” 

    In a letter dated 3 September and recently made public, Koch, writing on behalf of Bergoglio, who has served as the CEO of Conciliar Church, Inc. since March 2013, did as requested. He writes:

    Quote
    The abiding Christian conviction is that Jesus Christ is the new way of salvation. However, this does not mean that the Torah is diminished or no longer recognized as the “way of salvation for Jєωs.”
    This, of course, is blatant heresy, and it is nothing new for these men and those who think like them. As the 2015 docuмent, The Gifts and the Calling of God are Irrevocable, states:

    Quote
    From the Christian confession that there can be only one path to salvation, however, it does not in any way follow that the Jєωs are excluded from God’s salvation because they do not believe in Jesus Christ as the Messiah of Israel and the Son of God.
    You see, as far as Occupied Rome is concerned, there are at least two highways to Heaven, Jesus Christ being just one of them. Never mind that He said, “I am the way.” According to the Unholy See, that was just hyperbole, and the Jєωs can still get there via the Torah Turnpike, a toll road with no less than 613 collection points.

    While Catholic reaction to Koch’s letter has largely been one of outrage, the rabbis are entirely correct; the idea that the Old Law has been abolished really “had been fully repudiated by the Church,” provided one understands that the “church” in question is not the Catholic Church but rather the conciliar church.

    As for the one true Church of Christ, the Holy Roman Catholic Church, its doctrine concerning salvation vis-à-vis the Mosaic Law has not, and indeed cannot, change.

    Let’s review, beginning with the Council of Trent. 
    First, a definition is in order: When speaking of a “way of salvation,” we are addressing questions of justification. How is fallen mankind justified? How are sinners made righteous, holy, and acceptable to God? How may we receive divine sonship and inherit eternal life?
    On this note, the Council of Trent reminds us that baptism “is the sacrament of faith, without which no man was ever justified” (On Justification, Chapter VII).

    Get that? Apart from baptism, no man can ever be justified. This, of course, is an eminently basic, fundamental Christian truth.
    Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)

    As we profess in the Creed, “I believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sin.” Though the sacrament of baptism also cleanses one of personal sin, the sin being addressed here is original sin and the resulting loss of sanctifying grace, which is restored in man only by way of baptism. 
    So, when Trent states that baptism “is the sacrament of faith,” it is speaking specifically of the theological virtue of faith that is imparted (along with hope and charity) in baptism. The council went on to teach that this “faith is the beginning of human salvation, the foundation, and the root of all Justification; without which it is impossible to please God, and to come unto the fellowship of His sons.” 
    Again, there is no equivocation, it is impossible… Lest the true Catholic doctrine concerning the way of salvation for Jєωs remain unclear, the Fathers of Trent directly addressed the futility of the Mosaic Law, stating [with emphasis added]:

    Quote
    On the Inability of Nature and of the Law to justify man.
    The holy Synod declares first, that, for the correct and sound understanding of the doctrine of Justification, it is necessary that each one recognize and confess, that, whereas all men had lost their innocence in the prevarication of Adam – having become unclean, and, as the apostle says, by nature children of wrath, as (this Synod) has set forth in the decree on original sin, they were so far the servants of sin, and under the power of the devil and of death, that not the Gentiles only by the force of nature, but not even the Jєωs by the very letter itself of the law of Moses, were able to be liberated, or to arise, therefrom; although free will, attenuated as it was in its powers, and bent down, was by no means extinguished in them. (ibid., Chapter I) 
    So, just how binding is this teaching? 
    In the preamble to its treatment of justification, the Fathers of Trent plainly state their intention to:

    Quote
    …expound to all the faithful of Christ the true and sound doctrine touching the said Justification; which the sun of justice, Christ Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, taught, which the apostles transmitted, and which the Catholic Church, the Holy Ghost reminding her thereof, has always retained; most strictly forbidding that any henceforth presume to believe, preach, or teach, otherwise than as by this present decree is defined and declared.
    In other words, the council is declaring that the doctrine that follows (cited above) concerns divine revelation and must be definitively held; it is an infallible teaching that all are required to believe with divine and Catholic faith.

    NB: The obligation to hold this doctrine, and the corresponding duty to refrain from anything contrary, extends to believing, preaching, and teaching, with the latter two being public acts. In other words, it is heresy to knowingly express a contrary doctrine in any of these ways. It’s not necessary, therefore, for a formal decree to be issued attempting to definitively bind Catholics to an opposing doctrine, it is enough for the error to be preached or taught.    

    With this in mind, the council declares [with emphasis added]:

    Quote
    If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law [of Moses], without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema. (ibid., Canon I)
    Let him be anathema… This means, let all concerned understand well that this individual is severed from the body of the Church and is no longer a member thereof, i.e., such a one simply is not Catholic.

    So, how should one expect a true pope, and indeed a true member of the Church of any rank, to believe, preach, or teach on the Mosaic Law? 
    Pope Pius XII provides a wonderful example in his Encyclical, Mystici Corporis:

    Quote
    And first of all, by the death of our Redeemer, the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been abolished … On the Cross then the Old Law died, soon to be buried and to be a bearer of death. (cf, Mystici Corporis, 29, 30)
    The Holy Father does not mince words: Not only is the Old Law incapable of giving life, it is an instrument of death for those who foolishly attempt to abide in it as a means of justification.

    More could be written to underscore the critically important lesson to be learned from the recent exchange between the modernists in the Vatican and Jєωιѕн leaders, but I trust it’s not necessary; the reality of the present situation couldn’t possibly be clearer:
    Jorge Bergoglio, Kurt Koch, and those who believe, preach, or teach as they do – in this case, on the Law of Moses as a “way of salvation for Jєωs” – are anathema, that is to say, they are excluded from the society of the faithful, i.e., they are not members of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. And this, not by virtue of some formal ruling, but by virtue of the heresy itself. As Pope Pius XII stated:

    Quote
    For not every sin, however grave it may be, is such as of its own nature to sever a man from the Body of the Church, as does schism or heresy or apostasy. (Mystici Corporis 23)
    Why any sincere Catholic would continue to insist on calling these men Catholic, even going so far as to refer to the miscreants mentioned by name above as “Vicar of Christ” and “Prince of the Church” respectively, is beyond my comprehension.  
     



    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Prayerful

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    Re: Sanhedrin admonishes Bergolio
    « Reply #1 on: October 11, 2021, 11:59:03 AM »
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  • Perhaps Francis was harking back to his formation, which in the mid to late 60s, might have been passable, when he said something Catholic. Yet when they so much as lifted an eyebrow, Francis and his henchmen were tripping over themselves to apologise. At least maybe Francis might stop calling Catholics Pharisees, for some like Gamaliel were of good will, but otherwise the beatings will continue until morale improves.


    Offline crowbar

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    Re: Sanhedrin admonishes Bergolio
    « Reply #2 on: October 11, 2021, 01:21:20 PM »
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  • I'd like Koch and the "trad" lurkers on this forum, who tacitly agree with him and Vatican II, to explain what St. John the Apostle and Jesus Christ mean in 1 John 2:22-23, 1 John 4:3, Matthew 10:33, and John 5:23

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sanhedrin admonishes Bergolio
    « Reply #3 on: October 11, 2021, 01:28:01 PM »
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  • Well written article.  I love the sarcasm/satire.

    Nevertheless, alas, most Traditional Catholics believe that Jєωs CAN in fact be saved by following their Torah.  Why do people think I've been fighting this battle, that many here has written off as inconsequential and purely academic?

    If you believe in the "Anonymous Catholic" soteriology expressed by Archbishop Lefebvre and most Trad Cath clergy, then there's no objection whatsoever to this formulation.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sanhedrin admonishes Bergolio
    « Reply #4 on: October 11, 2021, 01:31:47 PM »
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  • I'd like Koch and the "trad" lurkers on this forum, who tacitly agree with him and Vatican II, to explain what St. John the Apostle and Jesus Christ mean in 1 John 2:22-23, 1 John 4:3, Matthew 10:33, and John 5:23

    Yes, you posted this before I had read past the OP.  Spot on.  If "Hindus in Tibet" are not excluded from salvation, then why should Jєωs be?


    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Sanhedrin admonishes Bergolio
    « Reply #5 on: October 11, 2021, 01:40:11 PM »
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  • Nevertheless, alas, most Traditional Catholics believe that Jєωs CAN in fact be saved by following their Torah.  Why do people think I've been fighting this battle, that many here has written off as inconsequential and purely academic?
    Then more trads need to stop listening to other trads on the subject and just read the plain words of Christ:
    "Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me."
    [John 14:6]
    "For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus."
    [1 Corinthians 3:11]
    Be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God hath raised from the dead, even by him this man standeth here before you whole.
    [11] This is the stone which was rejected by you the builders, which is become the head of the corner. [12] Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved.
    [Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12]

    Nowhere does that say "but Jєωs can be saved by Torah alone"
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline Miseremini

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    Re: Sanhedrin admonishes Bergolio
    « Reply #6 on: October 11, 2021, 03:28:38 PM »
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  • John 6:54  :incense:

    Jesus said,  "Amen, amen I say unto you:  Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink His blood, you shall not have life in you"

    I guess that leaves out everyone but Catholics.


    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline Prayerful

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    Re: Sanhedrin admonishes Bergolio
    « Reply #7 on: October 11, 2021, 05:17:37 PM »
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  • Well written article.  I love the sarcasm/satire.

    Nevertheless, alas, most Traditional Catholics believe that Jєωs CAN in fact be saved by following their Torah.  Why do people think I've been fighting this battle, that many here has written off as inconsequential and purely academic?

    If you believe in the "Anonymous Catholic" soteriology expressed by Archbishop Lefebvre and most Trad Cath clergy, then there's no objection whatsoever to this formulation.
    Anonymous Catholic can only mean someone who becomes convinced of Christian truth and converts at least in his heart. Yet men and women died for publicly announcing their conversion. Still if it was that, it might be okay, but it's something else, which isn't traditional.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sanhedrin admonishes Bergolio
    « Reply #8 on: October 11, 2021, 07:06:15 PM »
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  • Anonymous Catholic can only mean someone who becomes convinced of Christian truth and converts at least in his heart. Yet men and women died for publicly announcing their conversion. Still if it was that, it might be okay, but it's something else, which isn't traditional.

    What I mean by the terms is the same thing that Rahner mean with "Anonymous Christian" ... that the person himself doesn't know that he's a Christian.

    Offline bodeens

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    Re: Sanhedrin admonishes Bergolio
    « Reply #9 on: October 11, 2021, 11:44:23 PM »
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  • Then more trads need to stop listening to other trads on the subject and just read the plain words of Christ:
    "Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me."
    [John 14:6]
    "For other foundation no man can lay, but that which is laid; which is Christ Jesus."
    [1 Corinthians 3:11]
    Be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God hath raised from the dead, even by him this man standeth here before you whole.
    [11] This is the stone which was rejected by you the builders, which is become the head of the corner. [12] Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved.
    [Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12]

    Nowhere does that say "but Jєωs can be saved by Torah alone"

    Unfortunately even most Sede clergy ironically is more liberal on EENS than Frankie. Equally unfortunate that this is THE issue of our time but nobody treats it seriously and it's in the "ghetto" on here, as if there is any legitimate debate on the subject. The Anglo-Saxon Penitentials posted don't even elicit the same level of discord as EENS, which is a DOGMA.
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
    Francis is Pope.
    NO is a good Mass.
    Not an ironic sig.

    Offline Mark 79

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    Re: Sanhedrin admonishes Bergolio
    « Reply #10 on: October 12, 2021, 02:55:47 AM »
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  • Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Sanhedrin admonishes Bergolio
    « Reply #11 on: October 12, 2021, 03:12:45 AM »
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  • Sanhedrin? I didn't know a Sanhedrin existed. I did a word search on this thread and found that it was just the OP calling it a Sanhedrin. OK, now I understand.

    The Jєωs are like all false religions (Protestants, Eastern orthodox, Mohamedand, Hindus, Buddhists...)  all split up with as many sects as their are Jєωs. Only one religion in the entire world is united in faith and doctrines, and that is the Catholic Church. Therefore, when anyone says the Jєωs teach this or the Mohamedans teach that, one has to understand that it is just an individual that teaches that and not a religion. For example, when JPII had the ecuмenical affair at Assisi, he really only had one "cleric" or religious, like a Muslim or a Jєω, from each religion, and that one person represented his own one man religion. It was a farce, as are all the other "ecuмenical" activities of the Counterfeit Vatican II church.

    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Sanhedrin admonishes Bergolio
    « Reply #12 on: October 12, 2021, 06:30:20 AM »
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  • Unfortunately even most Sede clergy ironically is more liberal on EENS than Frankie. Equally unfortunate that this is THE issue of our time but nobody treats it seriously and it's in the "ghetto" on here, as if there is any legitimate debate on the subject. The Anglo-Saxon Penitentials posted don't even elicit the same level of discord as EENS, which is a DOGMA.

    Well, that's a bit of a stretch.  Bergoglio has said that atheists can be saved, and I don't know of any sedevacantists who believe that.  Nevertheless, despite that slight hyperbole, the point is well taken.  Soteriology, which dovetails with ecclesiology in general (if you can't be saved outside the Church, dogma, then if you say Hindus in Tibet can be saved, now suddenly you have to say that Hindus in Tibet can be inside the Church) ... these are THE critical theological issues of our time, and yet they're denounced as inconsequential and of no importance.

    If we hold the post-V2 ecclesiology, then we have no justification to be Traditional Catholics separated from the hierarchy; it undermines our very theological raison d'etre as Traditional Catholics.

    Offline bodeens

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    Re: Sanhedrin admonishes Bergolio
    « Reply #13 on: October 12, 2021, 11:02:16 AM »
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  • Well, that's a bit of a stretch.  Bergoglio has said that atheists can be saved, and I don't know of any sedevacantists who believe that.  Nevertheless, despite that slight hyperbole, the point is well taken.  Soteriology, which dovetails with ecclesiology in general (if you can't be saved outside the Church, dogma, then if you say Hindus in Tibet can be saved, now suddenly you have to say that Hindus in Tibet can be inside the Church) ... these are THE critical theological issues of our time, and yet they're denounced as inconsequential and of no importance.

    If we hold the post-V2 ecclesiology, then we have no justification to be Traditional Catholics separated from the hierarchy; it undermines our very theological raison d'etre as Traditional Catholics.
    Cekada and all of his adherents are definitively more liberal than Francis on EENS, declaring those to be outside the Church having greater chances at heaven than those inside the Church (saying "Feeneyites" have a lesser chance than heretics and false religionists). You could make a similar argument for the Kelleyites as well. The CMRI won't give Last Rites to "Feeneyites" IIRC even though the VII sect will. So it's not cut and dry and there was some hyperbole but yes, the only objectively, definitively heretical teaching of VII (not just ambiguous) is on EENS and if we accept modernist EENS framing of all issues then we are just saying everything was perfect while Pius XII was Pope with 0 rot and have no real reason not to simply be a "Latin-Massist" post New "Mass".
    Regard all of my posts as unfounded slander, heresy, theologically specious etc
    I accept Church teaching on Implicit Baptism of Desire.
    Francis is Pope.
    NO is a good Mass.
    Not an ironic sig.

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Sanhedrin admonishes Bergolio
    « Reply #14 on: October 12, 2021, 11:23:34 AM »
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  • Cekada and all of his adherents are definitively more liberal than Francis on EENS, declaring those to be outside the Church having greater chances at heaven than those inside the Church (saying "Feeneyites" have a lesser chance than heretics and false religionists). You could make a similar argument for the Kelleyites as well. The CMRI won't give Last Rites to "Feeneyites" IIRC even though the VII sect will. So it's not cut and dry and there was some hyperbole but yes, the only objectively, definitively heretical teaching of VII (not just ambiguous) is on EENS and if we accept modernist EENS framing of all issues then we are just saying everything was perfect while Pius XII was Pope with 0 rot and have no real reason not to simply be a "Latin-Massist" post New "Mass".
    More and more it is becoming apparent that Trad Church politics are an evil in themselves.
    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]