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Author Topic: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics  (Read 8017 times)

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Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2023, 06:21:39 PM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on January 13, 2023, 06:30:59 AM
    Wow. I don't see how Salza can have much of a following, even in the Indult world. He sounds typically Novus Ordo in his views. It is interesting that you point out that he was a radically-dogmatic sedevacantist. Now he's moved radically in the other direction.

    Meg, the remake Ladislaus made about being a dogmatic sedevacantist was about himself, not Salza.
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
    « Reply #61 on: January 13, 2023, 07:38:05 PM »
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    • Quote from: Sneedevacantist on January 12, 2023, 10:32:13 PM
    What's worse is that the Dimonds forbid that anyone pray for a person who dies and is, in their eyes, guaranteed to be in hell. Unless the Dimonds are blessed with omniscience, they should refrain from their ex cathedra-level declarations on who is in hell.
    That's because they hold to a Calvinistic morality. They and their flock are the Elect, and everyone else is a hell-bound reprobate. If you go against MHFM, you are going against God. Just like Calvin when he ran Geneva.
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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
    « Reply #62 on: January 13, 2023, 08:17:24 PM »
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    • Fradd had said before this interview that he was going to ask Salza where the Latin Mass would be today without all of these "schismatics". Did that question get asked / answered?
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    Offline Quo vadis Domine

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    Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
    « Reply #63 on: January 13, 2023, 08:19:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on January 13, 2023, 06:21:39 PM
    Meg, the remake Ladislaus made about being a dogmatic sedevacantist was about himself, not Salza.
    Remark not remake :facepalm:
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    For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
    « Reply #64 on: January 14, 2023, 08:58:32 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on January 13, 2023, 06:21:39 PM
    Meg, the remake Ladislaus made about being a dogmatic sedevacantist was about himself, not Salza.

    Oops....thanks for the correction. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
    « Reply #65 on: January 14, 2023, 08:59:17 AM »
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    • Quote from: MaterDominici on January 13, 2023, 08:17:24 PM
    Fradd had said before this interview that he was going to ask Salza where the Latin Mass would be today without all of these "schismatics". Did that question get asked / answered?

    A good question. 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
    « Reply #66 on: January 14, 2023, 09:01:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quo vadis Domine on January 13, 2023, 06:21:39 PM
    Meg, the remake Ladislaus made about being a dogmatic sedevacantist was about himself, not Salza.

    Right.  Sorry if I didn't articulate that properly.  I meant to correct that earlier but then it slipped my mind.
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    Offline Sneedevacantist

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    Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
    « Reply #67 on: January 14, 2023, 04:56:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on January 13, 2023, 07:38:05 PM
    That's because they hold to a Calvinistic morality. They and their flock are the Elect, and everyone else is a hell-bound reprobate. If you go against MHFM, you are going against God. Just like Calvin when he ran Geneva.
    Well put, their viewpoint always struck me as being some sort of neo-Calvinist view regarding the elect. They do come across as cultish, especially if you read the comments on their videos and online posts from their followers. I like a lot of their content (especially since their material got me started on my journey to Catholicism), but sadly they are not without issues.
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    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

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    Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
    « Reply #68 on: January 14, 2023, 05:07:14 PM »
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    • Salza should be worried by the sodomites.  He don’t mention them.
    There are many divorced remarried within Vatican II too.  


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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
    « Reply #69 on: January 14, 2023, 05:31:55 PM »
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    • It seems that trads are not the only ones with issues with some of Mr. Siscoe/Mr. Salza's positions.

    In this article, Ron Conte takes issue with their stance on papal deposition:

    https://ronconte.com/2021/08/26/a-refutation-of-siscoe-and-salzas-article-on-deposing-the-pope/

    This was the reply of Siscoe/Salza:

    http://www.trueorfalsepope.com/p/ron-contes-errors-on-vatican-i-and_16.html 
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
    « Reply #70 on: January 14, 2023, 05:53:33 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on January 14, 2023, 05:31:55 PM
    It seems that trads are not the only ones with issues with some of Mr. Siscoe/Mr. Salza's positions.

    In this article, Ron Conte takes issue with their stance on papal deposition:

    https://ronconte.com/2021/08/26/a-refutation-of-siscoe-and-salzas-article-on-deposing-the-pope/

    This was the reply of Siscoe/Salza:

    http://www.trueorfalsepope.com/p/ron-contes-errors-on-vatican-i-and_16.html

    As I read the articles, it seems they both score some points, but they both also misunderstand/misrepresent the position of the other:

    For example, SS say Conte believes the pope cannot err in ANY matter, where Conte clearly says he can't err in GRAVE matters, not ANY matter ("The Apostolic See is always unblemished by any grave error. I said any grave error, not all error.").

    In any case, I make mention only to make a point: Every one who dares to wade into these waters is contradicted by someone else (and even conciliarists by other conciliarists).
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
    « Reply #71 on: January 14, 2023, 06:30:28 PM »
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    • Quote from: Sneedevacantist on January 14, 2023, 04:56:15 PM
    Well put, their viewpoint always struck me as being some sort of neo-Calvinist view regarding the elect. They do come across as cultish, especially if you read the comments on their videos and online posts from their followers. I like a lot of their content (especially since their material got me started on my journey to Catholicism), but sadly they are not without issues.
    Yeah, it's like Matthew has said on here before, 90% of their stuff can be good but then there's that 10% of poison mixed in it.
    I've talked to quite a few of their cult members online, and either they're afraid to speak against the Dimonds because they think they're taking away from their apostolate or afraid of falling away; or, they're just carbon copies of Bro. Peter and everyone is a heretic and anathema. They also use this prophecy about a Benedictine Order at the end times of which it was said their enemies would be struck down by God, adding that nice little bit of fear in going against them.

    And then there's those that do finally break away from them who still hold to a similar mindset about BOD and think everyone is a heretic.
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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
    « Reply #72 on: January 14, 2023, 07:48:49 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on January 14, 2023, 05:53:33 PM
    As I read the articles, it seems they both score some points, but they both also misunderstand/misrepresent the position of the other:

    For example, SS say Conte believes the pope cannot err in ANY matter, where Conte clearly says he can't err in GRAVE matters, not ANY matter ("The Apostolic See is always unblemished by any grave error. I said any grave error, not all error.").

    In any case, I make mention only to make a point: Every one who dares to wade into these waters is contradicted by someone else (and even conciliarists by other conciliarists).

    That may be true - i.e., that SS were wrong about Conte about what kind of papal error Conte was talking about - but I thought the SS article was very well-docuмented and credible on the point about a pope teaching "as pope" meaning defining ex cathedra, and that errors in teaching by popes, even by councils, outside of defining or declaring something of the faith as revealed by God is possible. 

    I thought the SS article was well worth the read. As I recall what happened when I commended Salza for his book      The Mystery of Predestination According to Scripture, The Church and St. Thomas Aquinas, I'll now jump into my foxhole. :laugh1:

     
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    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
    « Reply #73 on: January 14, 2023, 08:26:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: DecemRationis on January 14, 2023, 07:48:49 PM
    That may be true - i.e., that SS were wrong about Conte about what kind of papal error Conte was talking about - but I thought the SS article was very well-docuмented and credible on the point about a pope teaching "as pope" meaning defining ex cathedra, and that errors in teaching by popes, even by councils, outside of defining or declaring something of the faith as revealed by God is possible.

    I thought the SS article was well worth the read. As I recall what happened when I commended Salza for his book     The Mystery of Predestination According to Scripture, The Church and St. Thomas Aquinas, I'll now jump into my foxhole. :laugh1:

    I've said many times that I think SS do a good job on many subjects.

    That said, I also believe they have a bit of tunnel vision, because they tend to mostly see things from the legal/canonical aspect (which is less relavent amidst a state of grave general spiritual necessity, which compels us to to ascend to theological principles, which are the source of the canon law in the first place):

    If I'm driving an accident victim to the emergency room, and breaking the speed limit in the process, it does little good to scold me for breaking the letter of the law, when presumably the legislator would dispense me from obedience to it, if he knew the circuмstances.

    And if nevertheless, the legislator should still unreasonably wish that I should obey the law, I would be completely justified (compelled) in disregarding him (Suarez), because as St. Thomas says, "Necessity carries within itself its own dispensation:"  His unreasonably opposed will cannot remove the soul from its necessity, but rather increases it.

    And that's what Lefebvre did (and what we do today: We're still on our way to the hospital, and the bleeding has only increased).

    Jurisdiction is for souls, and not souls for jurisdiction.
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    Offline DecemRationis

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    Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
    « Reply #74 on: January 14, 2023, 10:01:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on January 14, 2023, 08:26:09 PM


    If I'm driving an accident victim to the emergency room, and breaking the speed limit in the process, it does little good to scold me for breaking the letter of the law, when presumably the legislator would dispense me from obedience to it, if he knew the circuмstances.

    And if nevertheless, the legislator should still unreasonably wish that I should obey the law, I would be completely justified (compelled) in disregarding him (Suarez), because as St. Thomas says, "Necessity carries within itself its own dispensation:"  His unreasonably opposed will cannot remove the soul from its necessity, but rather increases it.

    And that's what Lefebvre did (and what we do today: We're still on our way to the hospital, and the bleeding has only increased).

    Jurisdiction is for souls, and not souls for jurisdiction.

    Sean,

    But where's the "necessity" to you now and for decades past? What if there were a way to get the victim to the emergency room without "breaking the speed limit"?

    If this is about access to the sacraments, there are indult parishes (that may change, but as of now, there are, and have been for years) clearly in communion with the pope that can provide the traditional sacraments to you.

    If it's about the invalidity of the new rites of ordination for bishops and/or priests, then you have the Conciliar Church defecting and might as well declare yourself a Sedevacantist. 

    DR
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    Rom. 3:25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the shewing of his justice, for the remission of former sins" 

    Apoc 17:17 For God hath given into their hearts to do that which pleaseth him: that they give their kingdom to the beast, till the words of God be fulfilled.
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