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Author Topic: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics  (Read 8779 times)

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Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2023, 09:43:55 PM »

At 11:20 he goes into Taylor Marshall's deceptions


But to be clear, unlike the position of the Diamond Bros I personally don't declare Benedict to be in Hell.  :(

I do believe death bed confessions are a possibility.

Plus, I believe that using tact and diplomacy when reaching out to those who have been deceived by Benedict's deceptive role playing as the

"good pope"

"traditional pope"

is necessary in order to help more people see the truth.

This can be accomplished without compromising the truth.


Thousands of traditionally minded Catholics have been sold a bill of goods through no fault of their own regarding Benedict.

It does no good to mock or make fun of them.

It's painful when one has been led to believe in a hero only to discover their hero is no hero at all.

Cognitive dissonance makes it very difficult and painful to see the truth.

We should be gentle and understanding yet at the same time unrelenting in sharing the truth.




Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2023, 09:46:21 PM »

But to be clear, unlike the position of the Diamond Bros I personally don't declare Benedict to be in Hell.  :(
God only knows where he wound up. Their idea of presuming people are absolutely in hell is vile. Sure, we can presume he died as he lived with no proof of conversion, but that's not a 100% certainty of where his final end is.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2023, 10:30:49 PM »
If you do enough digging you can find pictures of the consecration rite and it appears to be a mistake on +Gracida's part. The photos show the gospel book being placed above +Gracida's head and a quote from the new rite as a caption for the bestowal of the ring upon +Gracida.

You can't tell anything from the pictures.  Undoubtedly it was a hybrid rite in that they almost certainly used the Novus Ordo Mass for the Mass part.  Conferring the ring is nearly identical apart from varying English translations even with older editions.  I tend to take Bishop Gracida's word for it, as he was in charge of the ceremonies in the Diocese.  Since there were other Bishops there besides +Carroll, I'm guessing it was a hybrid where the essential form was swapped out but other aspects of the ceremony had the newer usage.  Gospel book wasn't actually on +Gracida's head in the picture but over it, so it was snapped at a time when they were about to put it into its position, with its final resting place TBD.  But, even if it ended up on his head, what's key is which essential form was used.

This again is what he wrote:
Quote
Consequently, when I was appointed in December of 1971 Auxiliary Bishop to Archbishop Coleman Carroll by Pope Paul VI, I was still Rector of Saint Mary Cathedral. I therefore know for a certainty that I was ordained Auxiliary Bishop of Miami on January 25, 1972 with an earlier edition of the Pontificale Romanum that was still in use in the Cathedral of Saint Mary in Miami and not the 1969 Edition of the Bugnini Pontificale.

By 1972, the NOM was in place, so those who wanted to retain the older form of the Rituale would have to have developed some kind of hybrid usage.

Offline Sneedevacantist

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Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2023, 10:32:13 PM »
God only knows where he wound up. Their idea of presuming people are absolutely in hell is vile. Sure, we can presume he died as he lived with no proof of conversion, but that's not a 100% certainty of where his final end is.
What's worse is that the Dimonds forbid that anyone pray for a person who dies and is, in their eyes, guaranteed to be in hell. Unless the Dimonds are blessed with omniscience, they should refrain from their ex cathedra-level declarations on who is in hell.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Salza calls the SSPX and Sedes Schismatics
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2023, 10:47:25 PM »
What's worse is that the Dimonds forbid that anyone pray for a person who dies and is, in their eyes, guaranteed to be in hell. Unless the Dimonds are blessed with omniscience, they should refrain from their ex cathedra-level declarations on who is in hell.

Well, the truth is in between.  Indeed one should not pray publicly for a departed heretic, and the presumption is in fact that they are lost.  Dimonds take the presumption a bit too far in one direction, while others minimize the presumption into a mere possibility ... with each side overreacting to the other.  When people pray for public heretics or public sinners, there's the danger of minimizing the gravity of heresy, but at the same time the Dimonds tend to carry on as if there's no such thing a purely material heresy.  There's a balance there that is not always easy to find.

Let's take the case of a different sin.  Let's say that Mel Gibon died suddely tomorrow without having first expressed any sign of repentance for the public state of sin he's in.  Church would traditionally have refused Christian burial with the presumption that he died in his sin.  If people offered prayers for him pubicly, it should be with the stipulation that they hoped that he would have repented of his sin before death, but would not offer them with the same attitude as if the person had died to all appearances as a practicing Catholic, a faithfuld departed.

I mean, for crying out loud, there were Trad Catholics who were offering prayers when Rush Limbaugh died, and one Motarian group was praying publicly for the departed heretic "Queen" Elizabeth.

At the same time, Joseph Ratzinger was validly baptized a Catholic, and so God have easily provide him the necessary lights and graces to save his soul even in his final moment of life.