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Author Topic: Saint John Cantius Devout Ordinary Form versus Deum Masses.  (Read 4230 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Saint John Cantius Devout Ordinary Form versus Deum Masses.
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2026, 03:53:42 PM »
The text of the New Mass Offertory is from the Apostolic Tradition of Saint Hippolytus, a CATHOLIC Prayer. 

You continue to expose yourself as the liar that you are.  No, even the Modernists claim that it's the Second "Eucharistic Prayer" that comes from Hippolytus ... not the Offetory.  Offertory is Jєωιѕн table prayer, you lying apostle of Satan you.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TraditionalCatholics/comments/1l7wp05/father_john_zuhlsdorf_on_the_тαℓмυdic_origin_of/


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Saint John Cantius Devout Ordinary Form versus Deum Masses.
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2026, 04:04:23 PM »
Now, the typical English translation of the Traditional Offertory is extremely weak ... and quite possible done that way on purpose to set the stage.

"Receive, O holy Father, almighty and eternal God, this spotless host, "

Unfortunately, in colloquial speech the "host" had come to mean the unconsecrated bread wafer.  But the Latin word is is "Hostia" ...

But the authoritative "Lewis & Short" Latin Dictionary has the correct definition ...

hostĭa (also fostia), ae, f. [2. hostio, acc. to Paul. ex Fest. p. 102 Müll.], an animal sacrificed, a victim, sacrifice (cf.: victima).

... and so this means SPOTLESS VICTIM (not just "spotless host", meaning the bread), an animal / blood sacrifice (which is, BTW, what Abel offered, while Cain was offering fruits of the earth)


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Saint John Cantius Devout Ordinary Form versus Deum Masses.
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2026, 04:10:23 PM »
But, overall I'm glad you started this thread, Nishant, since it was the setup for a posterizing rejection of your lies, rejected right back in your face.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Saint John Cantius Devout Ordinary Form versus Deum Masses.
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2026, 04:13:20 PM »
You should know better than to come trolling around here, Nishant, since we are intellectually well armed to refute your nonsense and expose the lies.

As they say ...

Re: Saint John Cantius Devout Ordinary Form versus Deum Masses.
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2026, 04:26:29 PM »
Lol. What a Joker this Clown Ladislaus is. The careful Reader will note Ladislaus did not address any of the proofs I gave. For e.g. he didn't engage with this. So why should I engage with him? I can easily do it of course, but why bother. Anyway, let's see if has the balls to even at least quote this line by line and then address it.

"For those who prefer to read rather than watch the 15 minutes of the Offertory and Roman Canon/Eucharistic Prayer in the NOM from minutes 40-55, here is the Transcript.


~42:12 – Prayer over the Offerings / Orate fratres

Pray, brethren, that my sacrifice and yours may be acceptable to God, the almighty Father.
May the Lord accept the sacrifice at your hands for the praise and glory of his name, for our good and the good of all his holy Church.


Grant, we pray, O Lord, that we may always find delight in these paschal mysteries, so that the renewal constantly at work within us may be the cause of our unending joy. Through Christ our Lord.

~43:05 – Preface Dialogue and Easter Preface

The Lord be with you.
And with your spirit.
Lift up your hearts.
We lift them up to the Lord.
Let us give thanks to the Lord our God.
It is right and just.

It is truly right and just, our duty and our salvation, at all times to acclaim you, O Lord, but in this time above all to laud you yet more gloriously when Christ our Passover has been sacrificed. For he is the true Lamb who has taken away the sins of the world; by dying he has destroyed our death, and by rising, restored our life. Therefore, overcome with paschal joy, every land, every people exults in your praise and even the heavenly Powers, with the angelic hosts, sing together the unending hymn of your glory, as they acclaim:

(Sanctus is sung)

~45:25 – Eucharistic Prayer I (Roman Canon)

You therefore, most merciful Father, we make humble prayer and petition through Jesus Christ, your Son, our Lord: that you accept and bless these gifts, these offerings, these holy and unblemished Sacrifices, which we offer you firstly for your holy catholic Church. Be pleased to grant her peace, to guard, unite and govern her throughout the whole world, together with your servant Francis our Pope and Blase our Bishop, and all those who, holding to the truth, hand on the catholic and apostolic faith.

Remember, Lord, your servants N. and N. and all gathered here, whose faith and devotion are known to you. For them, we offer you this Sacrifice of praise or they offer it for themselves and all who are dear to them: for the redemption of their souls, in hope of health and well-being, and paying their homage to you, the eternal God, living and true.

In communion with those whose memory we venerate, especially the glorious ever-Virgin Mary, Mother of our God and Lord, Jesus Christ, and blessed Joseph, her Spouse, your blessed Apostles and Martyrs, Peter and Paul, Andrew, James, John, Thomas, James, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Simon and Jude; Linus, Cletus, Clement, Sixtus, Cornelius, Cyprian, Lawrence, Chrysogonus, John and Paul, Cosmas and Damian and all your Saints; we ask that through their merits and prayers, in all things we may be defended by your protecting help. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

(The prayer continues through the institution narrative / consecration, which occurs in this window.)

~49:44 continuing – after the Consecration

…be pleased to look upon these offerings with a serene and kindly countenance, and to accept them, as once you were pleased to accept the gifts of your servant Abel the just, the sacrifice of Abraham, our father in faith, and the offering of your high priest Melchizedek, a holy sacrifice, a spotless victim.

In humble prayer we ask you, almighty God: command that these gifts be borne by the hands of your holy Angel to your altar on high in the sight of your divine majesty, so that all of us, who through this participation at the altar receive the most holy Body and Blood of your Son, may be filled with every grace and heavenly blessing. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

Remember also, Lord, your servants who have gone before us with the sign of faith and rest in the sleep of peace. Grant them, O Lord, we pray, and all who sleep in Christ, a place of refreshment, light and peace. Through Christ our Lord. Amen.

To us, also, your servants, who, though sinners, hope in your abundant mercies, graciously grant some share and fellowship with your holy Apostles and Martyrs: with John the Baptist, Stephen, Matthias, Barnabas, Ignatius, Alexander, Marcellinus, Peter, Felicity, Perpetua, Agatha, Lucy, Agnes, Cecilia, Anastasia and all your Saints; admit us, we beseech you, into their company, not weighing our merits, but granting us your pardon, through Christ our Lord.

Through whom you continue to make all these good things, O Lord; you sanctify them, fill them with life, bless them, and bestow them upon us.

Through him, and with him, and in him, O God, almighty Father, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours, for ever and ever.

~51:42 – Communion Rite begins

At the Savior’s command and formed by divine teaching, we dare to say:

Our Father, who art in heaven…
(Our Father continues; the requested window ends around here / early in the embolism and doxology.)

That covers the Offertory through most of Eucharistic Prayer I and the start of the Our Father - the heart of the Liturgy of the Eucharist in this recording."

You have to attack the Traditional Latin Mass itself (since many of these Prayers are from it) to attack these NOM Prayers.