Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: Lover of Truth on February 27, 2010, 08:12:57 AM
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Is the prophecy of our blessed Father St. Francis about our times?
"In Those Days Jesus Christ Will Send Them Not A True Pastor, But A Destroyer."--St. Francis of Assisi
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It's possible, or else he could be referring to some other time in history.
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Not a "true pastor" in the sense of being a morally reprehensible pastor. Just like we say someone isn't a "true Catholic" in the sense of practicing evil, while making no juridical claims. This is most fitting for JPII, et. al.
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I do believe that the Prophecy of St. Francis is being lived
out today, especially ever since October 1958.
Just compare what Pope Pius X11 and his predecessors
would have taught, and would have done, and compare
it to what Pope John XXlll and his successors taught, and
done. It is an entirely different ecclesi :incense:ology.
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I also believe that St. Francis either in this same or another prophecy spoke of an "uncanonically elected pope" -- which appears consistent with the Siri Thesis.
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I agree with Caminus that this expression does not unequivocally point to an Antipope--though it could.
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Ladislaus said:
I agree with Caminus that this expression does not unequivocally point to an Antipope.
Anti-POPES, plural.
Ladislaus, do you think it's some coincidence that all these guys feed off each other and build on each others' apostasy and heresy? Are you yet another one of those who avoid the obvious conspiratorial nature of what we're seeing? This is not about just some bad Pope, or heretical Pope. It's about an entirely new religion being created by a series of false Popes.
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Raoul, I said nothing more here than that THIS QUOTE does not point unequivocally to an Antipope.
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Raoul, I said nothing more here than that THIS QUOTE does not point unequivocally to an Antipope.
Kudos to Ladislaus for being faithful to the truth in this instance. It never hurts to be accurate, or to admit something that is true.
Don't try to make him say more than he said, Raoul. If everyone posted like him, there would be far less misunderstandings and confusion in the Catholic world.
Matthew
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I know, just wanted to point out this is about more than a "Pope." One of my pet peeves is when people act as if we're just dealing with an individual Pope who happens to have some questionable views, rather than with an organized takeover. Lather, rinse, repeat. We go through the same process with each Pope, acting as if they are autonomous beings, but THEY'RE ALL FROM THE SAME STOCK. Just as real Popes all guard the deposit of faith, these guys all guard the deposit of confusion, ambiguity and lies. There is nothing more to be expected from that quarter, any more than there is anything to be expected from the American government. Come out of her, my people, so ye be not partakers of her sins, etc.
I agree on the quote. But after Ladislaus said that Ratzinger's view of the resurrection was "rather beautiful" or something to that effect I have been on his case. Ladislaus is like Caminus with a slightly more sede-leaning veneer. I don't even know who I'm talking to anymore. I'm basically tilting at windmills at this point.
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Mo is that the quote certainly does refer to at least one anti-pastor.
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I agree on the quote. But after Ladislaus said that Ratzinger's view of the resurrection was "rather beautiful" or something to that effect I have been on his case. Ladislaus is like Caminus with a slightly more sede-leaning veneer. I don't even know who I'm talking to anymore. I'm basically tilting at windmills at this point.
I try to remain as objective as possible. I think that we all need to be that way lest we be led into error and even a false bitter zeal.
If Benedict XVI says something good or true, I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I said that (I think he was just Father when he made the statement on Resurrection) Ratzinger could have been saying something rather "profound" in his statements on the Resurrection--even if the language might have been very poor at times.
Theologians agree that our souls find completion only when united with our bodies, i.e. that our souls are in an incomplete state somehow until they're reunited with our bodies, so that the Resurrection entails not merely a restoration or resuscitation of the bodies but a completion of our souls as well, thus a Resurrection of the person. I don't see anything wrong with that and actually think it's interesting.
With that said, there does appear once again this modernist hubris, this tendency towards gnosticism, in the implicit disparagement of those who held a "crass" or "narrow" or "primitive" view of the subject. In point of fact, pre-V2 theologians have spoken of this completion of the soul at Resurrection well before he did. I remember discussing something along these lines during classes at the seminary in Winona.
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If more of the words of St Francis were provided, it would be easier to tell what he is referring to. What is the source of quote?
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If more of the words of St Francis were provided, it would be easier to tell what he is referring to. What is the source of quote?
http://www.novusordowatch.org/francis.htm
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Yes, this is the passage with the uncanonically elected pope.
I found the following quote amazingly prescient:
"Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it ..."
V2 popes have claimed to be "Pro Life" while doing absolutely NOTHING to stop the pro-abortion politicians. In fact, good ole Ted Kennedy was given a public Christian burial and eulogy by a "prince of the Church."
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It could refer to Boniface.
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I think Kennedy had Last Rites, so it MIGHT not be quite so disheartening. But still.
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Kennedy never retracted his position publicly, and so he should never have been buried publicly--much less given the kind of kudos that he received. Priest at his last rites should have demanded a public retraction as a condition for absolution.
I hope that God saved Kennedy's soul, but the scandal of the Church not only not excommunicating the public pro-aborts but even HONORING them is absolutely unacceptable. It would have been different if Kennedy had signed a public retraction on his deathbed.
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I also believe that St. Francis either in this same or another prophecy spoke of an "uncanonically elected pope" -- which appears consistent with the Siri Thesis.
If the Siri thesis were true, why did he deny it and where is his successor now? I find the thesis very fascinating but these two questions seem to cast a great deal of doubt on it. That and the fact that Siri "failed to support the Traditionalist Catholic movement, that he recognized John XXIII, Paul VI, John Paul I and John Paul II as legitimate popes, that despite his conservatism he used the Mass according to the reformed 1970 Roman Missal and the other revised sacraments, and that he signed all of the docuŠ¼ents of the Second Vatican Council."
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Siri did not deny irregularities at the conclaves, and in fact alluded to them. He did not speak openly about it because he felt gravely bound by "the secret" (as he called it). From his perspective, he "stepped down". Objectively speaking, however, third parties might conclude that he stepped down under duress. So it's hard to say what he would have been thinking at any given point. So, if he never thought of himself as exercising papal authority, then he would not have appointed a successor, nor would he have been teaching in any other capacity than in that of a private theologian (and so therefore would not have been protected by the charism of infallibility).