Author Topic: Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist  (Read 1870 times)

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Offline shin

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Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist
« on: September 04, 2010, 11:19:14 PM »
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  • This is a serious problem since the Council, of course, we are not speaking only of the number of souls not properly prepared for Communion receiving in grave sin that have exploded in numbers.

    But the priesthood itself has lost reverence for the Eucharist in so many cases. This of course, comes with the loss of reverence in the Mass.

    And we have seen tabernacles put aside and chairs for these priests taking their place.

    I don't like to discuss the horrors going on these times because they lead towards such grief that it is too much to bear.

    But I want to address some current issues that simply have to be addressed.

    In the Austrian news there was a report of 80 hosts stolen from the Diocese of Graz-Seckau. The commentary from the Diocese included this quote from the Episcopal Vicar:

    "The tabernacle was broken into and unknown persons stole 80 hosts."

    Episcopal Vicar Heinrich Schnuderl commented on the robbery of the All Holiest, "horrified":

    "The desecration of a host is for us Christians an attack against the center of our faith."

    It is manifestly not clear any more, that the Host in the tabernacle, "the body of Christ", is the All Holy for Catholics.

    The Episcopal Vicar identified the sacrilege, supposedly, with "a Toraroll in the Jewish Synagogue or an Islamic Koran, and also comparable to the desecration of a grave for example, in a Jewish graveyard."


    I trust everyone understands there is so much wrong with the above quote. A Toraroll in a Jewish Synagogue. An Islamic Koran. A Jewish.. graveyard..

    In the blogosphere there've been two exposes about two now common practices in the new liturgy.

    Communion in the Hand, and the use of extra large sized hosts.

    I would like to post the pictures showing what the results of these two practices are.

    First the use of extra large sized hosts that have to be broken into pieces for the Communicants:





    The priest who took the pictures describes the experience of breaking these hosts:

    '. . .  when these are "broken" after the Consecration of the Mass, during the "Breaking of the Bread" that large fragments of the host fly all over the place, on clothes, corporal, floor and elsewhere. I saw this happen this morning. . . I was breaking the large breads and realized that against my black trousers and the florescent light, I could see large and small fragments flying everywhere! If I had filmed this in slow motion, it would look like these fragments would become like an aerosol spray or a sneeze from a person’s mouth filmed in slow motion. One can’t see this during Mass with the white altar cloth background and the lighting of the Church. I have already made a decision no longer to use the large, whole wheat hosts because I would find large fragments on the corporal after the Breaking of the Bread. But I had no idea to what extent this was happening. On top of that, the broken hosts from the large one have a very jagged edge with large fragments easily falling as these are given to communicants.'

    I can only think of the judgement of God..

    [To see even unconsecrated hosts taken pictures of in 'Tupperware'. . . I am shaking my head.]

    The second series of photos are of a black glove and regular unconsecrated hosts -- showing again, what happens with Communion in the hand.

    The glove before, the glove after:





    As you can see before the glove holds the host, and after, there are fragments of the host left behind.

    This is not inconsequential. This is beyond human comprehension of consequence, it is so deep and terrible.

    A child could understand this. When people do not -- there is a reason.

    The relaxation of any real discipline in regards to the Eucharist has happened for many reasons. But what can be done to stop this?

    What we can do is make laypeople and priests aware of these photographs and these problems, and pray, and write letters, and petition for these practices to be banned because of the consistent sacrilegious treatment of Christ.. trampled under the feet of men, ignored, neglected, treated like nothing of importance, even by those who should love Him best, care for Him, and serve Him in all.

    We can make people aware of what is happening to Our Lord.

    We can fight for the love of our Lord and make reparation for those who neglect Him, in the tabernacle.
    Sincerely,

    Shin

    'Flores apparuerunt in terra nostra. . . Fulcite me floribus.' (The flowers appear on the earth. . . stay me up with flowers. Sg 2:12,5)'-

    Offline OHCA

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    Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist
    « Reply #1 on: September 05, 2010, 12:55:37 AM »
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  • Communion in the hand is one of the worst atrocities of the modern Church!  I am very fortuante to have finally found a very traditional N.O. parish.  It's in the town I've lived in for over a decade.  We now even have the "Motu" T.L.M.  We we're about to move a couple of years ago.  I had quit my job and accepted my dream job.  I left training for a few reasons, not the least of which being I did not want to move away from the most traditional Catholic parish I had ever found.

    How can we change the problems?  SSPX, and if there are any others like them, come back in (not implying SSPX isn't fully Catholic) and start screaming from the inside; SSPX who drive a long way to Mass probably know others where they live who would go to SSPX if was closer and could get them to join in the plan; and I'm sure some traditional N.O.s like myself would be on board.  Barge back in (it's your house too); demand your bishops and priests be fully accepted; demand to be able to fully avail yourself to the "Motu;" etc.  Do obvious things (I don't think it would be sinful to be obvious for this purpose as it would certainly not be for personal gain or esteem) such as say Holy Ghost instead of Spirit, abstain on Fridays, fast all days of lent, kneel in the Communion line and receive by mouth, make copies of your pictures (or make your own) and put a caption like "Do You Believe in the Real Presence?  Does This Bother You?" and leave them next to the bulletins or hand them out yourself outside after Mass, etc., and when other Catholics ask you why, tell them like I told my Catholic roommate in college, "I'm Catholic."

    I don't think the Pope is trying to dupe us with the "Motu;" I think the modernist hayday is on the decline.  As the baby-boomers (not implying there aren't any traditional boomers) get older, get outnumbered, get too frail to attend Mass (not that I'm wishing for that--just natural course of life), etc., I think the time will be ripe for us.  But we need to get back in now and encourage the younger generations, the xers and yers, in tradition so there isn't much persuading needed when the day arrives!

    My reason for referencing the boomers:  In my parish the boomers are the ones who are stuck in V-II.  The older and younger parishoners are not.  We are a very traditional N.O. parish--the MOST traditional parish I have ever set foot in.  When I was a child, my family had a bad habit (I think it was bad--maybe not considering how liberal our parish was then) of frequently attending Mass at parishes other than our own.  There were about 8 or so in our regular circle.  In addition we never missed mass on vacation.  I lived away in college and attended about 3 or 4 different parishes there.  I currently travel frequently and don't miss Mass when doing so.  I insist that my parish is by far more traditional than any I've ever set foot except it may not be "far more" than one other.  Anyway, the priest has always strongly encouraged receiving in the hand, refused to give in the hand to people holding kids, and immediately with the "Motu" put the Communion rail back.  Everyone receives at the rail, but of course, he is compelled to not deny to those who choose to stand rather than kneel nor those desiring to "reverently" receive in the hand.  Some of the frail elderly don't kneel, but the main ones doing the standing/in the hand routine are the boomers.

    Oh, I shan't forget my manners.  I believe I saw this is your first post, shin>  Welcome aboard; I may not be the one most well positioned to extend a welcome as I've only been here a few days myself and don't have that many posts to my credit yet either.  But anyway, I'm glad you're here, and I feel there are kindred spirits here.  I glean from your post you may be a traditional in an N.O. parish as well.  Is that correct?

    I may be out of line by offering this advice, but I think it will be helpful.  Be very cautious with what you read here and how much you rely on it.  Pray or at least make the Sign of the Cross before reading.  If you are N.O. (a parish offering primarily Novus Ordo, New Mass (vernacular instead of Latin) imposed upon us around 1969-1970) and desire a return to more traditional customs (Communion by mouth, kneeling for Communion, Friday abstinence, Latin Mass, etc.), or SSPX or similar, then you should be happy with the discussion here.

    There are some on here who take a position regarding the Pope's authority with which I don't agree, and which most SSPX don't agree, if I'm correct.  I doubt you will agree if you're N.O. or SSPX.  If you are strong in believing the Pope's authority (as I believe one should be), then remember that our Lord taught us to pray not to be lead into temptation, and avoid those posts unless you are very strong willed, not the least bit gullible, and think you can score some points for the benefit of their souls and others who may fall in with them.

    The group to which I refer must know who they are; I'm sorry to be offensive, and I do not wish ill will to you; I'm not sure that I may not even be able to roughly square with some of your sub-groups.  But there are some on the fringe (apparently completely self-guided) who at least claim (a claim I don't fully buy) to be counted among you.  Forgive me for offense, but I perceive I may be offering this to one who is in the same boat I'm in, and I my Catholic conscience won't let me neglect to offer this advice.

    shin, I don't mean to offend you--don't mean to be talking down to you.  But I gathered from your post that you may be an N.O. who desires a return to tradition as myself, I don't know to what extent you have been exposed to the concepts on here (most of which are very good), and I feel the charitable thing to do is to offer this advice to one who has just joined and apparently may be more in the same boat I'm in than anybody else I've encountered on here (though I like SSPX and will consider that if we're ever denied the "Motu" (right for Traditional Latin Mass in N.O. parishes since 2007).


    Offline Elizabeth

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    Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist
    « Reply #2 on: September 05, 2010, 10:30:38 AM »
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  • Good morning, OHCA and Shin!

    I was horrified to read of the 80 Hosts stolen--as Solange Hertz (I think) wrote,  "Is the Black Mass Valid?"

    The satanists must surely think so.

    Communion in the hand is simply hideous.  I thank God that of all my heinous sinning, I have never taken Our Lord in my filthy hand.

    There was a lot covered in these two posts which will we can discuss.

    Offline Thorn

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    Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist
    « Reply #3 on: September 05, 2010, 04:12:09 PM »
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  • Shin & OHCA, I realize that you are new here, & in a way I am too & rarely post. Your 'news' is actually quite old.  The only thing that saves us from being smitten by God for all this must be that they are really not consecrated hosts. The form & matter must be precise & if they are not then they are not the Body of Christ, but bread.

    Before we go any further, you both need to read up on what happened at the Papal "Mass" at Lourdes on September 14, 2008 and then we can talk.  Surely you would have to agree that even a bad pope wouldn't & couldn't do these sacrileges.  No, it looks to me like we are living in the age of the precursor to Antichrist & Catholics need to wake up & face these terrible, hard facts.
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Offline OHCA

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    Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist
    « Reply #4 on: September 05, 2010, 04:51:22 PM »
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  • Thorn,

    I googled "Papal Mass at Lourdes 2008" and primarily got a bunch of secular liberal news sources, which I don't trust.  What trustworthy source do you recommend for me learn what you're talking about?

    Thanks


    Offline Thorn

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    Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist
    « Reply #5 on: September 05, 2010, 05:21:40 PM »
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  • Unfortunately I don't have or even remember the original article which showed a lot of pictures of people taking the hosts by the handfulls & putting them in purses & pockets & dipping their hands into the giant chalice.

    Several months ago I thought I better get copies of this occurance as it was not well known.  I finally found an article on Angelgueen.org posted Wed. Sept. 17, 2008; and also one on Traditio.com, I'm not sure of the exact date but it was around that time.  Both of these are from a secular source, that is true, but the reporter was scandalized himself.  This is all I could find.  Nothing in the Catholic press that I know of but then, do you think that the Catholic press would publish this?
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Offline OHCA

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    Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist
    « Reply #6 on: September 05, 2010, 09:07:20 PM »
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  • Thorn,

    Thanks for directing me to the sources.  I found the account on AngelQueen.  I envisioned them getting the Hosts by the handsful in the Communion line.  Thus, I am ever so slightly relieved that it wasn't accomplished with cooperation of the Pope and Bishops.

    Also, I am not 100% convinced that it happened.  The pictures are admittedly re-creations.  But I do not doubt that it happened.  That is where the chaotic culture of the N.O. and V-II has gotten us.  It is undeniably grave sacrilege, abuse of our Lord's Body and Blood, shameful, ignorant, etc.

    I am deeply grieved by what happened to the Church, primarily at the hands of Pope John XXIII and Pope Paul VI at about the time I was born. But I am unshakeably convinced that, unfortunately, that is where the line of Peter is found.

    My faith tells me that our Lord has not totally forsaken us and that He will again provide the leadership we need to emerge from this era of darkness.

    I know many on here do not have much appreciation for the "Motu."  But I was born in 1972 in a liberal N.O. parish with no T.L.M. options within hundereds of miles, I'm certain.  N.O. was the only Catholicism in my region.  The only other option I was aware of was what the husband of one of the ladies in the parish did--stay home!

    I am only 38 and have hoped that we would have something akin to the "Motu" in my lifetime since my pre-teen years.  Now I am optimistic that we will come much further in my lifetime.

    Offline Thorn

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    Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist
    « Reply #7 on: September 05, 2010, 10:06:14 PM »
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  • Ah! but it WAS accomplished with the pope's cooperation!  Who left the hosts & chalice out on the altar & walked away for them to be savaged by the "pilgrims'?  As I said, even a bad pope wouldn't have done such a thing.

    Of course the line of Peter is on the throne in the Vatican.  Just where do you think the Antichrist is going to sit?  - in a false church??!  To me this just proves that the Catholic Church is the true church.  Christ did indeed say that He would not forsake us & He hasn't!  The traditional Mass has always been around.  We went to underground churches in the 70's & 80's. Staying & fighting in the 'occupied ' church was a useless endeavor.  Your friend was wise to stay home rather than partake of false, man-centered, or worse, worship.  

    Having no real Pope, but an imposter, is not the same as having no church.  The church will survive till the end of time but will only be a remnant.  You have the deposit of faith so does it really matter that you have someone questionable on Peter's throne?  Be not afraid.  Christ foretold all of this.

    I hate to say it but don't be too optimistic about the Motu Mass. Be very wary.  Snakes are all around us.    
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14


    Offline Alexandria

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    Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist
    « Reply #8 on: September 06, 2010, 11:30:37 AM »
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  • Shin is from CAF I believe.    

    Offline OHCA

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    Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist
    « Reply #9 on: September 06, 2010, 01:24:41 PM »
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  • What is CAF?

    Offline Alexandria

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    Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist
    « Reply #10 on: September 06, 2010, 01:29:01 PM »
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  • Quote from: OHCA
    What is CAF?


    (Un-) Catholic Answer Forum   :cool:


    Offline Thorn

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    Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist
    « Reply #11 on: September 07, 2010, 09:35:58 AM »
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  • OHCA, will you kindly state your sources where you got that the pictures are "ADMITTEDLY" re-creations?  Thanks.
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Offline OHCA

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    Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist
    « Reply #12 on: September 07, 2010, 09:58:29 AM »
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  • http://angelqueen.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=21680

    "Phtographs of the sacrileges and theft.  (Not caught in action, but the situation is represented, including the huge unguarded chalice with precious blood in order to dip the hosts.)"

    That is the bold text just above where the egregious pictures begin.

    Offline Thorn

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    Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist
    « Reply #13 on: September 07, 2010, 10:46:05 AM »
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  • But you wrote that the pictures were re-created.  The reporter wrote about all that was happening to his unbelieving eyes; at the time not taking pictures.  He then took pictures. It is true he didn't take pictures of the actions so he said that the pictures he did take as "the situation is represented".  That is certainly not to be construed as he re-created them.  He simply took pictures after the fact - after he had reported on all the things that had happened.  He must have been standing there dumbfounded at what was happening.
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Offline TKGS

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    Sacrilege Regarding the Eucharist
    « Reply #14 on: September 07, 2010, 10:59:07 AM »
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  • The issue of fragments, addressed here, has been declared a non-issue by the Conciliar Church. What, precicely, that means is something you'll have to decide for yourself.


     

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