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Author Topic: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?  (Read 56214 times)

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Offline Meg

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #425 on: May 31, 2023, 11:13:47 AM »

The crux isn't sede vs SSPX, but rather recognizing the Conciliar Church for what it is.

Bp. Faure once said that the ralliers (who want the SSPX to reconcile with Rome, like Salza does) and the sedevacantists are but two sides of the same coin.

Offline trad123

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #426 on: May 31, 2023, 11:14:50 AM »
Bp. Faure once said that the ralliers (who want the SSPX to reconcile with Rome, like Salza does) and the sedevacantists are but two sides of the same coin.


God forbid the SSPX ever does.

We're almost 5 years away from the 70 year mark of the death of Pius XII, the next 10 years will be very interesting.


Offline Meg

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #427 on: May 31, 2023, 11:19:50 AM »

God forbid the SSPX ever does.

We're almost 5 years away from the 70 year mark of the death of Pius XII, the next 10 years will be very interesting.

Yes, very interesting. The sedevacantists (not all of them, however, but generally) claim that if we believe that the Franics is the pope, then we cannot resist him. The ralliers believe the same - that we (the SSPX and Resistance) must be in full communion with the Pope and Rome. It's basically the same principle. 

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #428 on: May 31, 2023, 11:23:01 AM »

The crux isn't sede vs SSPX, but rather recognizing the Conciliar Church for what it is.

Meg is obsessed with SVism, but Salza condemns all Traditional Catholics (outside of Motu groups like FSSP, ICK, etc.) as schismatics, heretics, and outside the Church, in need of conversion.  And he's merely taking his false first principles to their logical conclusions, that SVs tried to point out were incorrect out of the gate, but R&R jumped on the bandwagon to defend these same principles that later Salza would turn against them as well.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #429 on: May 31, 2023, 11:25:20 AM »
Yes, very interesting. The sedevacantists (not all of them, however, but generally) claim that if we believe that the Franics is the pope, then we cannot resist him. The ralliers believe the same - that we (the SSPX and Resistance) must be in full communion with the Pope and Rome. It's basically the same principle.

While you oversimplify the principle (it's not about resistance but about the indefectibility of the Church), this is in fact correct.  Conservative Novus Ordites and Sedevacantists adhere to the same Major, the eminently Catholic principle that legitimate Catholic Magisterium and the Public Worship of the Church cannot become corrupt.  This principle has only been taught by every Pope, Father, Doctor, and theologian throughout the entire history of the Catholic Church ... and has been denied only by Old Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Protestants prior to the creation of mainstream "R&R" theology.

By R&R I refer to some modern types who claim falsely to be heirs of Archbishop Lefebvre.  Archbishop Lefebvre himself upheld the principle of the Major that the Papacy is protected by the Holy Spirit from corrupting the Church.  He simply questioned the Minor in terms of how this could have come about.  So those who try to defend their Old Catholic position as being that of Lefebvre are slandering him.