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Author Topic: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?  (Read 41388 times)

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Offline trad123

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #405 on: May 31, 2023, 09:55:52 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 31, 2023, 09:54:32 AM
    Why are you posting this???


    That is the position of Robert Siscoe and John Salza.


    That is their statement on their website, True or False Pope
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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
    « Reply #406 on: May 31, 2023, 09:58:01 AM »
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    • Quote from: trad123 on May 31, 2023, 09:55:52 AM

    That is the position of Robert Siscoe and John Salza.


    That is their statement on their website, True or False Pope

    And what does it have to do with me?
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline trad123

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    Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
    « Reply #407 on: May 31, 2023, 10:05:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 31, 2023, 09:58:01 AM
    And what does it have to do with me?



    You posted this:




    Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 31, 2023, 09:28:55 AM
    But they’re not home-aloners, as Matthew said this guy was?



    The point is that the following statements by LaCosaNostra were not merely against Lad or Pax, but against everyone on this forum.

    Undoubtedly, this poster was either Robert Siscoe or John Salza:





    Quote from: LaCosaNostra on May 30, 2023, 09:46:27 PM
    If by “Bergoglian Church, you mean the visible Church described above – church of Rome and diocese throughout the world in union with it - you have just denied indefectibility of the Church.  You are nothing but a neo Protestant heretic who happens to like the Traditional Mass, and every time you profess to believe in the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church during Mass, you lie to God and to yourself.  You believe in the idea of a Church with four marks, you reject the actual Church with four marks.  That makes you a heretic, since the actual existing Church with four marks is not only an article of faith, it is an object of divine and Catholic faith.  You deny the object.

    Hopefully one day you convert to Catholicism, since extra ecclesia nullo salus.

    Moderator: Cool it with the personal accusations. This particular dogmatic argument is getting a bit hot. Hopefully you're just speaking rhetorically here.






    Quote from: LaCosaNostra on May 31, 2023, 09:05:00 AM
    How many "Catholics" who belong to your sect believe that the Roman Catholic Church defected after Vatican II and now subsists in hundreds of different sects?  How many members of your sect even know what the Roman Catholic Church is?  The fact that you call the Church the V2 anti-church proves that are nothing but a Protestant heretic who likes the Traditional Mass. 









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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
    « Reply #408 on: May 31, 2023, 10:08:26 AM »
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    • Quote from: trad123 on May 31, 2023, 10:05:11 AM

    You posted this:






    The point is that the following statements by LaCosaNostra were not merely against Lad or Pax, but against everyone on this forum.

    Undoubtedly, this poster was either Robert Siscoe or John Salza:

    Yeah, it was a mistake to ban whomever it was.

    Ladislaus excommunicates more CI members in a single day, than this guy did in his entire brief tenure.

    But supposing it was S/S, why should the fact that they condemn the Resistance make their arguments against sedevacantism or Kramer false??
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline trad123

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    Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
    « Reply #409 on: May 31, 2023, 10:12:15 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 31, 2023, 10:08:26 AM
    Ladislaus excommunicates more CI members in a single day, than this guy did in his entire brief tenure.


    I know exactly the posts you are talking about, but after things die down, when the anger dissipates, I doubt Lad truly believes you are not a Catholic.
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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
    « Reply #410 on: May 31, 2023, 10:16:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 31, 2023, 10:08:26 AM
    Yeah, it was a mistake to ban whomever it was.

    Ladislaus excommunicates more CI members in a single day, than this guy did in his entire brief tenure.

    But supposing it was S/S, why should the fact that they condemn the Resistance make their arguments against sedevacantism or Kramer false??

    Good question that you ask above: why should their condemnation of the Resistance (which some sedevacantists, like Ladislaus, do all the time here) make their argument against sedevacantism or Fr. Kramer false? It would be nice to see this properly addressed.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
    « Reply #411 on: May 31, 2023, 10:20:59 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on May 31, 2023, 10:16:30 AM
    Good question that you asked above: why should their condemnation of the Resistance (which some sedevacantists, like Ladislaus, do all the time here) make their argument against sedevacantism or Fr. Kramer false? It would be nice to see this properly addressed.

    Yes, its like they are saying, "Hey, you shouldn't cite SS against us, because they condemn you too."

    But that ignores the fact that SS condemn the Resistance with different arguments than they condemn the sedevacantists with, so that line or reasoning does not follow.

    And we all know that if SS were here condemning the Resistance, many of the sedes (including Lad) would be backing them 100%.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline trad123

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    Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
    « Reply #412 on: May 31, 2023, 10:23:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 31, 2023, 09:54:32 AM
    Why are you posting this???


    Fine, lets bring LaCosaNostra back.

    It's only a matter of time before what you objected I posted gets pushed on here.

    Get your popcorn ready, LaCosaNostra will be calling you, Meg, and Matthew, and all of us on this forum, as heretics and schismatics.
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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
    « Reply #413 on: May 31, 2023, 10:27:34 AM »
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    • Quote from: trad123 on May 31, 2023, 10:23:49 AM
    Get your popcorn ready, LaCosaNostra will be calling you, Meg, and Matthew, and all of us on this forum, as heretics and schismatics.
     
    How is that any different from some sedevacantists here calling the Resistance adherents schismatics and heretics? And isn't for basically the same reason? 
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
    « Reply #414 on: May 31, 2023, 10:28:28 AM »
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    • Quote from: trad123 on May 31, 2023, 10:23:49 AM

    Fine, lets bring LaCosaNostra back.

    It's only a matter of time before what you objected I posted gets pushed on here.

    Get your popcorn ready, LaCosaNostra will be calling you, Meg, and Matthew, all of us on this forum, as heretics and schismatics.

    Nothing worse than what I hear from Lad every day, is it?

    He believes Matthew and Lefebvre are Old Catholics, liberals (BOD), have an heretical ecclesiology, etc. etc.

    I say bring LCN back, and when he turns against the Resistance, Lad will be supporting him 100% (and it will not be a persuasive argument for me to say, "But Lad, he condemns the sedes too, so you should not be backing him against the Resistance."  He will say the same thing I;m saying here: "SS are wrong about the Resistance, but right about the sedes.").
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
    « Reply #415 on: May 31, 2023, 10:28:44 AM »
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    • Quote from: Meg on May 31, 2023, 10:27:34 AM

    How is that any different from some sedevacantists here calling the Resistance adherents schismatics and heretics? And isn't for basically the same reason?
    Yup.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline trad123

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    Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
    « Reply #416 on: May 31, 2023, 10:29:24 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 31, 2023, 10:28:28 AM
    I say bring LCN back


    Lets do it!  

    I know I've got popcorn.
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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
    « Reply #417 on: May 31, 2023, 10:31:19 AM »
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    • Quote from: trad123 on May 31, 2023, 10:29:24 AM

    Lets do it! 

    I know I've got popcorn.

    I'm all for it too (and it would happen on your home turf, as the sedes WAY outnumber Resistance posters on the forum), so there would be way more rooting for SS against RR, than rooting for SS against sedevacantism.

    Matthew, release the Kracken!
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline trad123

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    Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
    « Reply #418 on: May 31, 2023, 10:34:32 AM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 31, 2023, 10:31:19 AM
    Matthew, release the Kracken!

    Send a PM to Matthew, and let the show begin.
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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline trad123

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    Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
    « Reply #419 on: May 31, 2023, 10:48:40 AM »
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    • CLOSING OF THE SECOND VATICAN EcuмENICAL COUNCIL

    ADDRESS OF POPE PAUL VI TO ARTISTS

    8 December 1965


    https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/en/speeches/1965/docuмents/hf_p-vi_spe_19651208_epilogo-concilio-artisti.html


    Quote
    . . .  the Church of the council  . . .



    Church of the council, indeed!

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    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.
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