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Author Topic: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?  (Read 56188 times)

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #330 on: May 29, 2023, 06:20:47 PM »
There's nothing in there from CMRI; it's simply a translation of Bellarmine.  So I have no doubt that you didn't even bother to click the link before denouncing it, since you rule out beforehand any arguments against your predetermined conclusions.

Typical projection.

Offline trad123

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #331 on: May 29, 2023, 06:33:26 PM »
Billuart (and Pope Martin) were referring to jurisdiction with regard to receiving the Sacraments.  Thus, although Cushing was a manifest heretic, the priests appointed by Cushing would still retain jurisdiction to hear Confessions, for instance.  That's all that was in that text that you continue to misapply.


Retain jurisdiction, or rather exercise supplied jurisdiction?


Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #332 on: May 29, 2023, 06:36:56 PM »
There's nothing in there from CMRI; it's simply a translation of Bellarmine.  So I have no doubt that you didn't even bother to click the link before denouncing it, since you rule out beforehand any arguments against your predetermined conclusions.

Despite your use of an obnoxiously large font, Billuart's position has to do with ordinary lower-level prelates, and not popes.  Take the case of Cardinal Cushing, for instance.  He was clearly a manifest heretic.  But the faithful are not obliged to avoid him, and he can retain a certain amount of jurisdiction and continue to exercise jurisdiction, though color of title, at the very least, until he would be deposed by Rome.

But the papacy is different:

1) because Popes receive their authority from Christ and
2) no one can judge or denounce or depose him

Billuart (and Pope Martin) were referring to jurisdiction with regard to receiving the Sacraments.  Thus, although Cushing was a manifest heretic, the priests appointed by Cushing would still retain jurisdiction to hear Confessions, for instance.  That's all that was in that text that you continue to misapply.

In his closing paragraph, Billuart admits that all that went before does not necessarily apply to the papacy (something you ignore), but then states that he believes God would continue to supply jurisdiction for the good of the Church.  But this is along the lines of the "color of title" position held by the sedevacantists, and would be limited to things like making appointments or jurisdiction for the reception of the Sacraments.
:facepalm:

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #333 on: May 29, 2023, 06:57:42 PM »

Quote
since you rule out beforehand any arguments against your predetermined conclusions.
Yeah, typical Sean.  He really gives the Resistance a bad name on this site (and possibly even his books).  A guy who can't even admit certain distinctions, nor have any level-headed back-and-forth with those who disagree with him, is not someone who should be writing books (except the "101 reasons against the new-sspx"...that one was good.)  He makes mountains out of every molehill.  Everyone is an opponent.  No hill is too small to die on.

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #334 on: May 29, 2023, 07:04:00 PM »
There's nothing in there from CMRI; it's simply a translation of Bellarmine.  So I have no doubt that you didn't even bother to click the link before denouncing it, since you rule out beforehand any arguments against your predetermined conclusions.

Despite your use of an obnoxiously large font, Billuart's position has to do with ordinary lower-level prelates, and not popes.  Take the case of Cardinal Cushing, for instance.  He was clearly a manifest heretic.  But the faithful are not obliged to avoid him, and he can retain a certain amount of jurisdiction and continue to exercise jurisdiction, though color of title, at the very least, until he would be deposed by Rome.

But the papacy is different:

1) because Popes receive their authority from Christ and
2) no one can judge or denounce or depose him

Billuart (and Pope Martin) were referring to jurisdiction with regard to receiving the Sacraments.  Thus, although Cushing was a manifest heretic, the priests appointed by Cushing would still retain jurisdiction to hear Confessions, for instance.  That's all that was in that text that you continue to misapply.

In his closing paragraph, Billuart admits that all that went before does not necessarily apply to the papacy (something you ignore), but then states that he believes God would continue to supply jurisdiction for the good of the Church.  But this is along the lines of the "color of title" position held by the sedevacantists, and would be limited to things like making appointments or jurisdiction for the reception of the Sacraments.
Where did you get that thing at the end there about a titulus coloratus? The rest of the post is sensible. But then you just pulled that thing out of your behind, or perhaps more precisely, out of someone else's. 🤣