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Author Topic: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?  (Read 55033 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #635 on: June 29, 2023, 02:55:34 PM »
Pius XII's papal election law, Vacantis Apostolicae Sedis, allows a papal election to be held ONLY AFTER the death, funeral, and burial of the previous Pope. It does not differ in essentials from Universi Dominici Gregis.

:facepalm: ... this clearly means that the funeral rites for a deceased pope should be observed before the conclave gets underway.  If no deceased pope, then no funeral rites.  There is no one who can force a man to remain pope if he wills to resign.

Offline Angelus

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #636 on: June 29, 2023, 03:29:43 PM »
:facepalm: ... this clearly means that the funeral rites for a deceased pope should be observed before the conclave gets underway.  If no deceased pope, then no funeral rites.  There is no one who can force a man to remain pope if he wills to resign.

I am not saying that a Pope cannot resign if he wants to. Of course, he can resign. Why do you keep saying that?

You seem to think that a papal resignation automatically triggers a papal election. You are incorrect about that, as the law of papal elections makes clear.

Even if a Pope chooses to resign (which he can do), the papal election law must still be followed precisely. And that law requires the death, funeral, and burial of the Pope BEFORE a new election can happen.

A papal resignation PRIOR TO the death of a Pope (under this law) will create a situation wherein the Church officials will still carry on day-to-day business through its curial offices in the Apostolic See, using as their guide the laws that have been put in place by the retired Pope. But these Curial officials cannot make new laws or teach new doctrines during that period.

Again, only after the death, funeral, and burial of the Pope can a new election be held. The new Pope can then start making new laws and teach doctrine.


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #637 on: June 29, 2023, 04:20:45 PM »
I am not saying that a Pope cannot resign if he wants to. Of course, he can resign. Why do you keep saying that?

You seem to think that a papal resignation automatically triggers a papal election. You are incorrect about that, as the law of papal elections makes clear.

Even if a Pope chooses to resign (which he can do), the papal election law must still be followed precisely. And that law requires the death, funeral, and burial of the Pope BEFORE a new election can happen.

:facepalm:  So if a Pope resigns, he has to be killed, buried, and have a funeral Mass?

Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #638 on: June 29, 2023, 04:36:23 PM »

Quote
Even if a Pope chooses to resign (which he can do), the papal election law must still be followed precisely. And that law requires the death, funeral, and burial of the Pope BEFORE a new election can happen.
:laugh1:  I think you're missing a few procedures.  I'm sure there's a sub-category of regs which deal with the unique situation of a resignation.


Didn't +Benedict also update the conclave laws, after JP2?  I'm sure the +Benedict "legal team" looked all this over.  It's not that complicated (i.e.  If a pope resigns, the requirements for a death/burial are ignored.  Move on to next procedure.)

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #639 on: June 29, 2023, 04:51:13 PM »
:laugh1:  I think you're missing a few procedures.  I'm sure there's a sub-category of regs which deal with the unique situation of a resignation.


Didn't +Benedict also update the conclave laws, after JP2?  I'm sure the +Benedict "legal team" looked all this over.  It's not that complicated (i.e.  If a pope resigns, the requirements for a death/burial are ignored.  Move on to next procedure.)

If you look at the Latin, there's no definite article, so it could just as well read, "with the funeral rites of a deceased pope completed" ... along those lines, meaning, in the event of a deceased pope (vs. one who resigned), the funeral rites should be completed before the conclave.