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Author Topic: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?  (Read 55033 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #580 on: June 11, 2023, 08:48:25 PM »
The analogy is spot on.  We laymen can recognize that stealing/heresy has taken place.  But we cannot sentence anyone to any kind of punishment, because we don’t have all the details.  That’s up to those in authority.  

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #581 on: June 25, 2023, 03:27:49 PM »
Archbishop Lefebvre was not a trained theologian by any stretch.....

Really?  The SSPX claims he completed his doctorate in philosophy and theology.

https://sspx.org/en/short-biography-archbishop-marcel-lefebvre



Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #582 on: June 25, 2023, 03:37:39 PM »
You can do whatever you want as a layman but you have no authority to judge any cleric.  Canon law is for "canons" (i.e. churchmen).  It is law for the church; and laymen are not part of the church (in the same sense as are religious persons).


The second reason your "judgement" means nothing is you have no authority over any other catholic, except your family.  Your opinion, however educated and investigated it is, means zilch.  You can't subject anyone to your opinion, because no other catholic has to pay attention to you, at all.  It would be similar to a some new zealand citizen who files an appeal with the US Supreme Court...it means nothing.  A non-citizen, non-lawyer, who files some proceeding with a foreign court....it goes directly into the garbage can.  That person has no standing, no rights and no legal cause for the court (nor anyone else) to listen to anything they say.

Where is your evidence, as I requested, from Church teaching that only she can judge the PUBLIC SIN of heresy?  Once again you brought up Canon Law which I specifically told me is not the question here.  I am speaking about the SIN of heresy and not the CRIME of heresy.  If you cannot prove you assertion, then please retract it rather than rambling on with off topic comments. 

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #583 on: June 25, 2023, 03:41:06 PM »
You have no authority to judge that Vatican II taught heresy or that the Novus Ordo Mass isn't Catholic and pleasing to God.  This contradiction for some reason constantly escapes people.

That's right.  They make a judgement and in the next breath tell others that they can't make a judgement.

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #584 on: June 25, 2023, 03:50:46 PM »
To "kick someone out of office" is a legal process.  Because it has to do with their human/govt office.  Which is a canon law process.  God has already judged them (spiritually) if they are guilty of heresy.  But no layman can kick anyone out of office; this is the Church's job, because it's a human office/process.

Judging that another has committed the public sin of manifest formal heresy is not to say that the one making the judgement has the authority to enforce his judgement by kicking the heretic out of office.  The enforcement is under the direction of the competent Church authorities.  However, the one making the judgement simply refuses to recognize the heretic as still retaining office.

The question is:  do you hold that Jorge Bergoglio has committed the public sin of manifest formal heresy?

If your answer is "yes", then you must refuse him as pope because the public sin of manifest formal heresy per se separates the heretic from the Church.