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Author Topic: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?  (Read 55982 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #550 on: June 04, 2023, 05:08:17 PM »
Quote from: Catholic Knight on June 04, 2023, 04:52:54 PM
None of this gives you the right to outright reject Vatican II…

I outright reject V2, for the reasons adduced by +Vigano:

It had the form of an ecuмenical council, but not the purpose or substance.

V2 is not an ecuмenical council, regardless of all the bishops who attended.
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Offline Catholic Knight

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #551 on: June 04, 2023, 05:09:20 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on June 04, 2023, 05:02:48 PM
:facepalm:  Jorge's Conciliar predecessors are guilty of the exact same heresies that Jorge holds.  For you to claim otherwise would be a rather pathetic act of intellectual dishonesty.

You have missed my point.  My intent was to hold Pax Vobis' own argument (i.e., one has to wait for the Church to decide....) against him.
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Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #552 on: June 04, 2023, 05:13:51 PM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on June 04, 2023, 05:08:17 PM
I outright reject V2, for the reasons adduced by +Vigano:

It had the form of an ecuмenical council, but not the purpose or substance.

V2 is not an ecuмenical council, regardless of all the bishops who attended.

Vatican II was not an Ecuмenical Council ... but only because a legitimate Pope has to preside over and approve an Ecuмenical Council.
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #553 on: June 04, 2023, 05:26:50 PM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on June 04, 2023, 05:13:51 PM
Vatican II was not an Ecuмenical Council ... but only because a legitimate Pope has to preside over and approve an Ecuмenical Council.

Nope.

V2 was a novelty; a pastoral council (a thing unheard of before).

It neither condemned error nor defined dogma (the only things an ecuмenical council does).

You just can’t get past your sede obsession to see things objectively.  
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Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #554 on: June 04, 2023, 06:56:13 PM »

Quote
That I cannot determine by perceiving with my senses and apprehending with my intellect that the public sin of heresy has occurred and that I must wait for the Church to make that judgment is nonsense.  That's like saying I have to wait for the weatherman to tell me that it's raining outside before I can make the judgment that it is.  God gave me faculties to use them.   
No, that’s a bad analogy.  It’s similar to a murder.  We (laity) can make the determination that someone died.  But we cannot make any decision (or if we do, it carries no legal significance) of who did the killing nor why.  That’s up to the proper authorities (ie Church) to bring Justice.  
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