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Author Topic: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?  (Read 56103 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #450 on: May 31, 2023, 01:12:49 PM »
Still waiting for an asnwer to this question:

If a 6 year-old schismatic in the state of grace is invincibly ignorant, by what means is grace forfeited (since full knowledge is necessary for the grave sin by which the grace is lost)?

Conversely, if the grace is not forfeited, how would such a one be damned?
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Offline trad123

  • Supporter
Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #451 on: May 31, 2023, 01:13:57 PM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on May 31, 2023, 01:09:58 PM
No, invincible ignorance implies that the person “does not deserve” to be ignorant and they are “sincerely good-willed.”

The quotes you posted by St Thomas explain that those who are ignorant of the Faith, are so because of sin. 


Do I really need to quote it again?




Quote
Consequently ignorance of such like things is called "invincible," because it cannot be overcome by study.



It's invincible precisely because it's not within their own power to overcome such ignorance.

Who shall furnish such souls with what they themselves cannot overcome?

God.




Quote
we must most certainly hold that God would . . .


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Offline trad123

  • Supporter
Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #452 on: May 31, 2023, 01:20:27 PM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 31, 2023, 01:12:49 PM
Still waiting for an asnwer to this question:

If a 6 year-old schismatic in the state of grace is invincibly ignorant, by what means is grace forfeited (since full knowledge is necessary for the grave sin by which the grace is lost)?

Conversely, if the grace is not forfeited, how would such a one be damned?


At what point do you think acts of faith, hope, and charity are obliging on a soul?
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Offline Marulus Fidelis

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #453 on: May 31, 2023, 01:21:40 PM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 31, 2023, 01:12:49 PM
Still waiting for an asnwer to this question:

If a 6 year-old schismatic in the state of grace is invincibly ignorant, by what means is grace forfeited (since full knowledge is necessary for the grave sin by which the grace is lost)?

Conversely, if the grace is not forfeited, how would such a one be damned?
As St. Thomas says, if he is incuplably ignorant he will receive the Gospel, if his ignorance is culpable he will be damned for his other sins.

It comes down to belief in Divine Providence. You actually believe that someone who is lives without mortal sin, sincerely seeking the truth would be denied it by God? If so, that's blasphemous.

Now please answer is belief in the Trinity and Incarnation obligatory pn all above the age of reason, by a necessity of means, for salvation?
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Offline AMDGJMJ

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #454 on: May 31, 2023, 01:49:53 PM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 31, 2023, 01:12:49 PM
Still waiting for an asnwer to this question:

If a 6 year-old schismatic in the state of grace is invincibly ignorant, by what means is grace forfeited (since full knowledge is necessary for the grave sin by which the grace is lost)?

Conversely, if the grace is not forfeited, how would such a one be damned?
I always thought of it as Protestant children who are baptized correctly are technically Catholics unless/until they deny the Catholic Faith by attending non-Catholic worship or stubbornly holding to a heresy which the Church has condemned.  

That being said...  A Protestant child would not have access to True Sacraments continually to cleanse his soul or give him more grace.  So, even though it might be possible for such a person to get to heaven if they never rejected the Church, it would be very unlikely.
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