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Author Topic: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?  (Read 56618 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #380 on: May 31, 2023, 08:05:29 AM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 31, 2023, 07:56:10 AM
What??

If one is invincibly ignorant, by what means is grace forfeited, since full knowledge is necessary for the grave sin by which the grace is lost?

Conversely, if the grace is not forfeited, how would such a one be damned?

There can be no charity (aka state of grace) without supernatural faith.  Once one has reached the age of reason, there can be no merely-infused supernatural faith.
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #381 on: May 31, 2023, 08:13:41 AM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 31, 2023, 07:56:10 AM
What??

If one is invincibly ignorant, by what means is grace forfeited, since full knowledge is necessary for the grave sin by which the grace is lost?

Conversely, if the grace is not forfeited, how would such a one be damned?
Those who do not believe in Christ, in His Church, who do not have the Catholic faith, sin. The sin of unbelief.
 
John 16:8-9 And when he is come, he will convict the world of sin, and of justice, and of judgment.  9 Of sin: because they believed not in me. 
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #382 on: May 31, 2023, 08:13:46 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on May 31, 2023, 08:05:29 AM
There can be no charity (aka state of grace) without supernatural faith.  Once one has reached the age of reason, there can be no merely-infused supernatural faith.

You aren’t answering the question:

If one is invincibly ignorant, by what means is grace forfeited, since full knowledge is necessary for the grave sin by which the grace is lost?

Conversely, if the grace is not forfeited, how would such a one be damned?
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Offline Marulus Fidelis

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #383 on: May 31, 2023, 08:16:33 AM »
Quote from: SeanJohnson on May 31, 2023, 08:13:46 AM
You aren’t answering the question:

If one is invincibly ignorant, by what means is grace forfeited, since full knowledge is necessary for the grave sin by which the grace is lost?

Conversely, if the grace is not forfeited, how would such a one be damned?
The Errors of Peter Abelard, Condemned by Innocent II, July 16, 1140, #10: “That they have not sinned who being ignorant have crucified Christ, and that whatever is done through ignorance must not be considered sin.” ‐ Condemned
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Offline SeanJohnson

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #384 on: May 31, 2023, 08:18:00 AM »
Quote from: Stubborn on May 31, 2023, 08:13:41 AM
Those who do not believe in Christ, in His Church, who do not have the Catholic faith, sin. The sin of unbelief.
 
John 16:8-9 And when he is come, he will convict the world of sin, and of justice, and of judgment.  9 Of sin: because they believed not in me. 

Please read more carefully, and explain how the invincibly ignorant in the state of grace can commit grievous sin to forfeit grace.
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