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Author Topic: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?  (Read 54896 times)

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Offline MiracleOfTheSun

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2022, 08:56:16 AM »
Until recently, I'd never heard of this then I asked a friend about it.  The description I received sounded basically just like the Thesis.  Asked another friend about that and he said, 'yeah, it's basically the Thesis.'  Not sure I can be bothered enough to check out Fr. Chazal's hair-splitting.
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2022, 09:14:08 AM »
Quote from: MiracleOfTheSun on September 23, 2022, 08:56:16 AM
Until recently, I'd never heard of this then I asked a friend about it.  The description I received sounded basically just like the Thesis.  Asked another friend about that and he said, 'yeah, it's basically the Thesis.'  Not sure I can be bothered enough to check out Fr. Chazal's hair-splitting.

To me, the hair-splitting doesn't matter.  Father Chazal holds that the V2 Popes lack all authority due to their manifest heresy.  This preserves the integrity of the Church, where the Conciliar abominations did not proceed from the actual Magisterium or from papal authority.  This is different from classic R&R, which holds that they do have legitimate authority, but may be disobeyed on a case-by-case basis.
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Offline 2Vermont

Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2022, 09:37:59 AM »
I know this wasn't directed at me/my position, but what is the difference between Fr Chazal's position and the CassiciacuŠ¼ Thesis?  And if there really isn't one, why doesn't he just take on the CT position?
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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2022, 09:43:28 AM »
Quote from: 2Vermont on September 23, 2022, 09:37:59 AM
I know this wasn't directed at me/my position, but what is the difference between Fr Chazal's position and the CassiciacuŠ¼ Thesis?  And if there really isn't one, why doesn't he just take on the CT position?

Father says there are differences, but I haven't seen one that I found convincing.  I think mostly it's about politics.  If Father adopted CT, he'd be labeled a "sede-".  With Father Chazal's thesis, though, R&R could "safely", without being afraid to be labeled "sedes" adopt a position that's sortof form the "R&R" camp while upholding traditional Catholic ecclesiology.
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Offline Stubborn

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Re: R&R -- why don't you get behind Father Chazal's sede-impoundism?
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2022, 09:58:19 AM »
Quote from: Ladislaus on September 23, 2022, 08:28:23 AM
Sure, it doesn't matter to Old Catholics like yourself.  It matters to actual Catholics, though, but feel free to recuse ourself from this discussion.  What's really tragic, Stubborn, is all the Trads who have abandoned Catholicism in favor of a slight variation Old Catholicism just to keep having Bergoglio be their "pope" ... of course, a pope they ignore and who's good for nothing other than to put a picture of his smiling face in your vestibule.  But, by all means, carry on.
No, the status of the pope does not matter, not to me and not to you, we will both do what we need to do to keep the faith and save our soul regardless of the sins of heresy he commits, or the sins of apostacy he commits, and whatever other mortal sins he commits publicly or privately.

His sins to dot affect my faith or me getting to heaven, if they effect your faith and your getting to heaven then you need to work on that because they shouldn't. 

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