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Author Topic: Robert Siscoe Article in 1 Pet 5: the one doctrine that proves Francis is Pope.  (Read 17283 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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If such a thing were possible, it would, at the very least, reduce the papal election laws, ceremonies and procedures, both before and after the election, which laws btw, have themselves been established by popes, to nothing more than ceremonies used as instruments designed to deceive the whole world - if such a thing as electing a usurper to the Seat of Peter were even possible.

Unless you believe, as I do, that no usurper was actually ever elected.  Siri, IMO, was elected and uncanonically deposed by the conspirators.  Some day the full truth will come out.

Offline Stubborn

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:facepalm:

Ah, the logic is not strong in this one.

Sounds like the same slur that Prots employ against their strawman view of papal infallibility.
It's only illogical to sedes.
"But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


Online Pax Vobis

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Quote
I hold the belief, as most theologians do, that the Pope cannot ever become a heretic,
Define "most".  Many hold this position, but not most.

Offline Stubborn

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Unless you believe, as I do, that no usurper was actually ever elected.  
I do believe that no usurper was ever elected.


Quote
Siri, IMO, was elected and uncanonically deposed by the conspirators.  Some day the full truth will come out.
But there is no basis, it is nothing more than, as you say, an opinion-become-belief, an opinion founded upon an entirely unsubstantiated event, which was denied by Siri himself.

If however, Siri was actually elected and deposed (there is no method within the Church at all to depose a pope, canonical or uncanonical), Siri himself would in fact be guilty of at least a grave sin of omission by his denial or silence in the matter, which under those terms, he would be guilty of doing what sedes (wrongfully) say popes cannot do - sinning via the breaking the Church's "universal law" (which it really isn't) of papal elections, thus ipso facto he vacates the office anyway. So why believe in that conspiracy theory?

"But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

Offline Ladislaus

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I do believe that no usurper was ever elected.

Yeah, we know, you think these guys who have been elected are actually Catholic.


Offline Ladislaus

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But there is no basis, it is nothing more than, as you say, an opinion-become-belief, an opinion founded upon an entirely unsubstantiated event, which was denied by Siri himself.

Wrong.  Siri stated that grave things happened at the conclaves but that he could not speak about them due to the secrecy oath.  And there's a lot of evidence (albeit no smoking gun proof) that he was in fact elected.

Offline Ladislaus

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If however, Siri was actually elected and deposed (there is no method within the Church at all to depose a pope, canonical or uncanonical), Siri himself would in fact be guilty of at least a grave sin of omission by his denial or silence in the matter, which under those terms, he would be guilty of doing what sedes (wrongfully) say popes cannot do - sinning via the breaking the Church's "universal law" (which it really isn't) of papal elections, thus ipso facto he vacates the office anyway. So why believe in that conspiracy theory?



... confusing personal sin with public heresy.

Personal sin does not vacate the office, only manifest heresy or apostasy.

Offline Stubborn

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Yeah, we know, you think these guys who have been elected are actually Catholic.
I believe, as Pope St. Pius X put it, the man elected is "instantly the true pope". That's all there is to that.
"But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


Offline Stubborn

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Wrong.  Siri stated that grave things happened at the conclaves but that he could not speak about them due to the secrecy oath.  And there's a lot of evidence (albeit no smoking gun proof) that he was in fact elected.
Talk about a totally lame excuse, especially if he was elected the pope (and accepted). He'd have been way better than any of the conciliar popes - not.  :facepalm:
"But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

Offline Stubborn

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... confusing personal sin with public heresy.

Personal sin does not vacate the office, only manifest heresy or apostasy.
Reality proves that not even manifest heresy or apostasy has caused a pope to vacate the office, either that, or the popes are not guilty of manifest heresy.

Which is it?
"But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

Offline Ladislaus

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Reality proves that not even manifest heresy or apostasy has caused a pope to vacate the office.

What reality are you looking at?  I see a Concilar Church that doesn't resemble the Catholic Church of old.  That's the reality I'm confronting.


Offline Ladislaus

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Talk about a totally lame excuse, especially if he was elected the pope (and accepted). He'd have been way better than any of the conciliar popes - not.  :facepalm:

Nobody said it was an excuse.  It was a rebuttal to your statement that Siri denied it.  Uhm, yes, the man had the Catholic faith, unlike the Conciliar imposters ... so, certainly he would have been better.  What are you smoking, man?

Was he a weak man?  Maybe.  But you find yourself confronted by Communists threatening to execute all the Iron Curtain bishops and see how you respond.

Offline Stubborn

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What reality are you looking at?  I see a Concilar Church that doesn't resemble the Catholic Church of old.  That's the reality I'm confronting.
It's two different churches, that much is for sure - that's just reality again. The reality of the matter is that, like all the conciliar popes, he is still holding his office. 
"But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

Offline Stubborn

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Nobody said it was an excuse.  It was a rebuttal to your statement that Siri denied it.  Uhm, yes, the man had the Catholic faith, unlike the Conciliar imposters ... so, certainly he would have been better.  What are you smoking, man?

Was he a weak man?  Maybe.  But you find yourself confronted by Communists threatening to execute all the Iron Curtain bishops and see how you respond.
We would not expect one who does not even defend his own election to the papacy to defend the faith, quite the opposite. A man such as that is expected to defend the faith just the same as he defended his election, iow, just the same or, likely even worse that the conciliar popes, i.e. not at all.  
"But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

Offline Ladislaus

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We would not expect one who does not even defend his own election to the papacy to defend the faith, quite the opposite. A man such as that is expected to defend the faith just the same as he defended his election, iow, just the same or, likely even worse that the conciliar popes, i.e. not at all.  

Well, I'd rather have a man in office who fails to defend rather than one who actively destroys.  Pius XII also, IMO, failed to defend (and Siri would have been a similar pope) ... but the Church was still in much better shape then than what it is now.