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Author Topic: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?  (Read 11484 times)

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Offline Yeti

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Re: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?
« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2020, 05:59:17 PM »
You imagine that everyone in the "Conciliar Church" is a modernist heretic, and think refusal to be in union with the Church is a mark of orthodoxy.  Nothing could be further from the truth.  

What showed me that the mindset is false is experiential knowledge. Without that, I would probably be as blind as you are to the reality.
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Everyone? No, not everyone. But let me give you some experiential knowledge, as you say. Here's a poll that says that 89% of American "Catholics" think contraception is not a sin. I have a trick question for you -- what percentage of Catholics actually think contraception is a sin? Answer: 100.00%. Anyone who doesn't believe that is not Catholic. The same article says about half of American "Catholics" think abortion is okay.
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So no, I wouldn't say everyone in the Novus Ordo Church is a heretic, but 89% is a pretty large majority.
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By the way, are we including these people among the "Catholics" who "unanimously accept" Bergoglio as pope?

Re: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?
« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2020, 06:34:12 PM »
False straw man.  I have repeatedly stated the contrary, that there are undoubtedly many good Catholics in material error only in the Novus Ordo.

If by "in the Novus Ordo" you mean to include Traditional Catholics, you are making the false assumption that they are in material error.

Look, I'm not denying that there are problems in the Church, but what I now know is that it's entirely false to imaging that the real Catholics are on the outside, and only compromisers are within. That is entirely false.  What I am beginning to see is that there's far more error, heresy and confusion among Trads on the outside.  Take the example of episcopal consecration and ordination to the priesthood. Nearly all on the outside doubt the validity of both, when there is not the slightest objective doubt about either.   Why all the confusion and doubt?  It's definitely not due to any sound doctrinal reasons, since no one could give me any when I asked (unless I missed it).


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I even believe that there are some hierarchs who too are in material error only and therefore legitimately exercise jurisdiction.  


You just contradicted yourself.  How can they have jurisdiction if they belong to a false Church?  They can't.  You just implicitly admitted that you believe the entity you call the Conciliar Church is really the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside of which there is no salvation.  



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Just check my posting history.  You made this allegation up out of thin air.  Not everyone is a radical dogmatic sedevacantist like you appear to have been.  Evidently you swung from one extreme back to the other extreme, unable to find the appropriate distinctions to prevent your pendulum swing.

I've never been a sedevacantist, and the only thing my pendulum had done is gradually stop swinging.  It now rests atop and is firmly held in place by traditional doctrine.



Re: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?
« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2020, 06:44:59 PM »
I’m curious, what kind of “union” are you inferring that we are to have with your putative pope and ”Novus Ordo” bishop? Why don’t we profess the same faith if we are members of the same church?

We're not members of the same Church.  I'm a member of the Roman Catholic Church.  You're not.  And we don't profess the same faith.  I profess the Catholic faith, whole and inviolate.  You profess some variation of the sedevacantist religion.     Two different Churches, two different religions, and two different professions.  

Offline Quo vadis Domine

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Re: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2020, 06:48:21 PM »
If by "in the Novus Ordo" you mean to include Traditional Catholics, you are making the false assumption that they are in material error.

Look, I'm not denying that there are problems in the Church, but what I now know is that it's entirely false to imaging that the real Catholics are on the outside, and only compromisers are within. That is entirely false.  What I am beginning to see is that there's far more error, heresy and confusion among Trads on the outside.  Take the example of episcopal consecration and ordination to the priesthood. Nearly all on the outside doubt the validity of both, when there is not the slightest objective doubt about either.   Why all the confusion and doubt?  It's definitely not due to any sound doctrinal reasons, since no one could give me any when I asked (unless I missed it).


 You just contradicted yourself.  How can they have jurisdiction if they belong to a false Church?  They can't.  You just implicitly admitted that you believe the entity you call the Conciliar Church is really the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside of which there is no salvation.  


I've never been a sedevacantist, and the only thing my pendulum had done is gradually stop swinging.  It now rests atop and is firmly held in place by traditional doctrine.
“there’s far more error, heresy and confusion among Trads”? Oh really?
 You lost all credibility with me with that statement.....what a dolt! Get lost!

Offline Quo vadis Domine

  • Supporter
Re: Responses to the Crisis: Conciliar Church = Catholic Church?
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2020, 06:54:20 PM »
We're not members of the same Church.  I'm a member of the Roman Catholic Church.  You're not.  And we don't profess the same faith.  I profess the Catholic faith, whole and inviolate.  You profess some variation of the sedevacantist religion.     Two different Churches, two different religions, and two different professions.  

LOL! But,but,but your heretical, communist, degenerate pope is a member in good standing in your eyes. In fact, he is the centerpiece of your church! LOL!

Get lost you dolt, I’ve wasted way too much time on you.