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Author Topic: Resisting An Infallible Pope?  (Read 978 times)

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Re: Resisting An Infallible Pope?
« Reply #40 on: Yesterday at 06:10:16 PM »
Analogies only go so far. If all Catholics had to go on was the appearance of the institutional apparatus, then your analogy holds fine. But Catholics have Scripture and thousands of years of interpretations of those Scriptures and private revelation to guide us.

We are told by Jesus and the saints to look for certain anomalies at the end of the age. We are told to expect some of those who dress in vestments of wool (sheep's clothing) to be ravening wolves. We are told to beware of the false prophets. We are told that a man will sit in the "temple of God" (the Catholic Church) and promote sin and most Catholics will follow him to destruction because of what is called "the operation of error."

Are you aware of Our Lady's warnings at Quito, at La Salette, at Fatima, at Garabandal, at Akita? They all warn about the same final tribulations inside the Church. What about Leo XIII and the conversation between Satan and Jesus? For 100 years Satan will be allowed to destroy the Church. Is it not obvious that satanic plan is progressing along nicely.

My point is that structurally you should be expecting the situation because Heaven has warned us over and over and over again. And...broken record here, if you are watching for the signs of the times that are warned about, then you should see that they are happening...now.

If God told you a Toy Store would be transformed into a meth lab and you saw zombified people with really bad teeth in and out of there all day and night, might you be able to put 2 and 2 together without God sending a thunderbolt?

The guy claiming to be "the Pope" is teaching another gospel. He is teaching that by "dialoguing" with others we can bring about peace of earth. No Jesus required. Do you see it?
This is actually a pretty good post and explanation, thanks.

I'm open to both options, but I guess my post was more about this:

"Don't attribute to malice or stupidity what can be attributed to different priors, axioms and knowledge"

TomGubbins, since you're also here, I usually stay away from those threads but I see you have this whole back and forth with sedes and regarding Thuc, but you strike me as a thinking fella, surely you can admit that 99% of sedes you meet are sedes in good faith and are just following what they think is the truth and the will of God? Their thought process is quite logical, even if you don't share the starting points.

This goes both ways. I'm trying to answer "How come you can have two good-faith, pious, smart, logical people have access to the same data but come out with radically different positions? Is it because one is malicious or stupid? Or is there another explanation?"

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Re: Resisting An Infallible Pope?
« Reply #41 on: Yesterday at 06:31:07 PM »

heresy is something the Church judges. Not individuals. The church decides whether bodies of beliefs are heresy. The Church determines what is heretical belief.

VII produced Neo modernism. It is not the same as the modernism as the modernism of St. Pius X.

We will wait for the condemnation of the Church of this new heresy.

In the meantime we just stay away. And stop making yourself Pope.

I wonder what you make of this, Tom.

Notice that St. Paul did not instruct the Galatians to wait for the Church hierarchy to decide who is to be "anathema" if they are a false teacher. Why do you try to add your own (false) teaching to the Church's teaching found in Scripture?

Any Christian can compare the authentic truths of the faith to any alternative teaching and determine that the alternative teaching is "another gospel." There is no official submission process and waiting period for that. St. Paul says so himself. 

St. Paul to the Galatians 1:3-12: 

3 Grace be to you, and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present wicked world, according to the will of God and our Father: 5 To whom is glory for ever and ever. Amen. 6 I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel. 7 Which is not another, only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. 9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11 For I give you to understand, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For neither did I receive it of man, nor did I learn it; but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.





Re: Resisting An Infallible Pope?
« Reply #42 on: Yesterday at 07:07:36 PM »

heresy is something the Church judges. Not individuals. The church decides whether bodies of beliefs are heresy. The Church determines what is heretical belief.

VII produced Neo modernism. It is not the same as the modernism as the modernism of St. Pius X.

We will wait for the condemnation of the Church of this new heresy.

In the meantime we just stay away. And stop making yourself Pope.
Eusebius of Dorelayum was a layman in Constantinople, he was present in the Haiga Sophia when Nestorius went to the pulpit and preached heresy for the first time. He also later challenged Eutyches for monophysitism. If you remember, it took Rome years to condemn Nestorius, but Eusebius recognized heresy instantly and challenged him from the congregation. He didn't sit in the pew twiddling his thumbs saying "ooh I can't fink he's a hewetic, I gotta wait till he's decwaired wone fwom Wome."


Secondly, Modernism is Modernism, it is the same heresy that Pope Pius X condemned, if what came from V2 is not a heresy, and Leo XVI is teaching it, you can't judge as a layman as you said, and you must submit.

Re: Resisting An Infallible Pope?
« Reply #43 on: Yesterday at 10:09:59 PM »
VII produced Neo modernism. It is not the same as the modernism as the modernism of St. Pius X.

Who do you think pushed for the council? The same Modernists condemned by Pope St. Pius X, you dunce.

Re: Resisting An Infallible Pope?
« Reply #44 on: Today at 02:04:21 AM »
I wonder what you make of this, Tom.

Notice that St. Paul did not instruct the Galatians to wait for the Church hierarchy to decide who is to be "anathema" if they are a false teacher. Why do you try to add your own (false) teaching to the Church's teaching found in Scripture?

Any Christian can compare the authentic truths of the faith to any alternative teaching and determine that the alternative teaching is "another gospel." There is no official submission process and waiting period for that. St. Paul says so himself.

St. Paul to the Galatians 1:3-12:

3 Grace be to you, and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present wicked world, according to the will of God and our Father: 5 To whom is glory for ever and ever. Amen. 6 I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel. 7 Which is not another, only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. 9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11 For I give you to understand, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. 12 For neither did I receive it of man, nor did I learn it; but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Yes indeed that is all true.

But there is also a reason the Church has formal pronouncements as the Church against heresy.