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Author Topic: Reminder about "Team Bergoglio" implications  (Read 752 times)

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Online Mark 79

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Reminder about "Team Bergoglio" implications
« on: April 09, 2016, 03:59:08 PM »
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    The “Team Bergoglio” Scandal
    https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2014/12/25/team-bergoglio-scandal/

    Rome — Dec. 25, 2014: Since the scandal regarding Team Bergoglio broke, the From Rome blog has assiduously followed the news and studied what the consequences have been.  On that account more than 25,000 visitors from more than 120 countries have visited this blog to find the news that was not being summarized or published elsewhere.

    “Team Bergoglio” is the name given by Dr. Austen Ivereigh, former spokesman to His Eminence, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, ex-Archbishop of Westminster, England, to the group of Cardinals who campaigned for Cardinal Bergoglio in the 2013 Conclave.

    The Scandalous consequences of the revelations of Dr. Ivereigh’s book, can be summed up thus: Dr. Ivereigh has written a book alleging as many as 30 cardinals did that which is apparently a violation of the papal law on conclaves, on which account they would be ipso facto excommunicated, Cardinal Bergoglio included, and the election of the latter by 2013 Conclave be null and void and of no effect. — As of this date, no substantial denial has been made by anyone of the accused, and Dr. Ivereigh has not substantially withdrawn, changed, or altered what he wrote.

    To continue to assist Catholics and journalists world-wide who wish to know more about this scandal, we present here a summary and links through which readers can grasp the basic and detailed facts of the case which has arisen.

    First, our article, The Chronology of Reports on “Team Bergoglio” https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2014/12/02/the-chronology-of-reports-on-team-bergoglio/ , contains the master-list of all the news reports of note and blog posts, videos, audios, tweets, etc. which regard crucial information or analysis of the story: this list is in Chronological order according to the date the information was published or presented.

    But since the Chronology has already grown to 8 pages in length, for those wishing to grasp the facts, we suggest the following articles:

    The Great Reformer: Francis and the Making of Radical Pope https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2014/12/09/the-great-reformer-francis-and-the-making-of-a-radical-pope/ , which explains just what Dr. Austen Ivereigh has written in his new book, of the same title, about who did what before and during the Conclave of 2013.

    The Improbity of the denials by “Team Bergoglio” https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2014/12/13/the-improbity-of-team-bergoglios-recent-denials/ , which explains just what some of the Cardinals, alleged by Ivereigh to have engaged in vote-canvassing, have and have not denied. An analysis which shows the probability that Cardinal Bergoglio consented to and/or organized the effort.

    The Monstrosity of Allegations against “Team Bergoglio” = Cardinal Bergoglio is not the pope https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2014/12/12/the-monstrosity-of-the-allegations-against-team-bergoglio-cardinal-bergoglio-is-not-the-pope/ , which explains the canonical consequences of the violation of the Papal law on conclaves, which Ivereigh’s text apparently convicts Cardinal Bergoglio of.

    4 Ways the “Team Bergoglio” revelations undo Francis’ Papacy https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2014/12/07/4-ways-the-team-bergoglio-revelations-undo-francis-papacy/ , which is an editorial explaining the grave implications for the Church stemming from the scandal, be it true or not.

    No, your Eminence, the Church is not a tyranny! https://fromrome.wordpress.com/2014/12/19/no-your-eminence-the-church-is-not-a-tyranny/ , which rebuts the gross indifference of 1 Cardinal of the Roman Church to the scandal and pointedly indicates the grave Crisis into which the Catholic Church has been placed by the undenied allegations.
    The other articles which reports facts of lesser interest, though important of themselves, can be found in the Chronology article link above.



    Offline Student of Qi

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    Reminder about "Team Bergoglio" implications
    « Reply #1 on: April 11, 2016, 03:45:45 PM »
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  • Quote from: Mark 79


    The Scandalous consequences of the revelations of Dr. Ivereigh’s book, can be summed up thus: Dr. Ivereigh has written a book alleging as many as 30 cardinals did that which is apparently a violation of the papal law on conclaves, on which account they would be ipso facto excommunicated, Cardinal Bergoglio included, and the election of the latter by 2013 Conclave be null and void and of no effect. — As of this date, no substantial denial has been made by anyone of the accused, and Dr. Ivereigh has not substantially withdrawn, changed, or altered what he wrote.





    I remember Bishop Faure say in one of his conferences that Pope Pius XII made a reform to Canon Law that said something along the lines of "Any bishop who is excommunicated may assume the Papacy".  Does anyone here know where or if this reform can be found on the net?

    If Pope Pius XII made such a reform, does this not blow to smithereens the ideals people have of Bergoglio not being pope? Also, from what I understand, most Sedevacantists consider Pius XII the last true pope. If the pope made such a reform, does this not mean that every pope after him must be recognized?

    Opinions?
    Many people say "For the Honor and Glory of God!" but, what they should say is "For the Love, Glory and Honor of God". - Fr. Paul of Moll


    Online Mark 79

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    Reminder about "Team Bergoglio" implications
    « Reply #2 on: April 11, 2016, 08:33:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: Student of Qi
    Quote from: Mark 79


    The Scandalous consequences of the revelations of Dr. Ivereigh’s book, can be summed up thus: Dr. Ivereigh has written a book alleging as many as 30 cardinals did that which is apparently a violation of the papal law on conclaves, on which account they would be ipso facto excommunicated, Cardinal Bergoglio included, and the election of the latter by 2013 Conclave be null and void and of no effect. — As of this date, no substantial denial has been made by anyone of the accused, and Dr. Ivereigh has not substantially withdrawn, changed, or altered what he wrote.





    I remember Bishop Faure say in one of his conferences that Pope Pius XII made a reform to Canon Law that said something along the lines of "Any bishop who is excommunicated may assume the Papacy".  Does anyone here know where or if this reform can be found on the net?

    If Pope Pius XII made such a reform, does this not blow to smithereens the ideals people have of Bergoglio not being pope? Also, from what I understand, most Sedevacantists consider Pius XII the last true pope. If the pope made such a reform, does this not mean that every pope after him must be recognized?

    Opinions?


    “For the Holy Spirit was promised to the successors of Peter not so that they might, by His revelation, make known some new doctrine, but that, by His assistance, they might religiously guard and faithfully expound the revelation or Deposit of Faith transmitted by the Apostles.” — Pastor Aeternus

    Such a weaponized "reform" would hardly guard the Faith. Such a deformation would heap heresy upon heresy. I am skeptical that Pope Pius XII would do such a thing, but am willing to consider any solid evidence.

    Offline Cantarella

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    Reminder about "Team Bergoglio" implications
    « Reply #3 on: April 11, 2016, 10:34:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: Student of Qi
    Quote from: Mark 79


    The Scandalous consequences of the revelations of Dr. Ivereigh’s book, can be summed up thus: Dr. Ivereigh has written a book alleging as many as 30 cardinals did that which is apparently a violation of the papal law on conclaves, on which account they would be ipso facto excommunicated, Cardinal Bergoglio included, and the election of the latter by 2013 Conclave be null and void and of no effect. — As of this date, no substantial denial has been made by anyone of the accused, and Dr. Ivereigh has not substantially withdrawn, changed, or altered what he wrote.





    I remember Bishop Faure say in one of his conferences that Pope Pius XII made a reform to Canon Law that said something along the lines of "Any bishop who is excommunicated may assume the Papacy".  Does anyone here know where or if this reform can be found on the net?

    If Pope Pius XII made such a reform, does this not blow to smithereens the ideals people have of Bergoglio not being pope? Also, from what I understand, most Sedevacantists consider Pius XII the last true pope. If the pope made such a reform, does this not mean that every pope after him must be recognized?

    Opinions?


    Could it be this quote from Vacantis Apostolicae Sedis?

    Quote from: Pope Pius XII, Vacantis Apostolicae Sedis, 1945).
    “None of the Cardinals may, by pretext or reason of any excommunication, suspension, or interdict whatsoever, or of any other ecclesiastical impediment, be excluded from the active and passive election of the Supreme Pontiff


    w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/la/apost_constitutions/docuмents/hf_p-xii_apc_19451208_vacantis-apostolicae-sedis.html


    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Reminder about "Team Bergoglio" implications
    « Reply #4 on: April 12, 2016, 07:54:09 AM »
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  • Quote from: Cantarella
    Quote from: Pope Pius XII, Vacantis Apostolicae Sedis, 1945).
    “None of the Cardinals may, by pretext or reason of any excommunication, suspension, or interdict whatsoever, or of any other ecclesiastical impediment, be excluded from the active and passive election of the Supreme Pontiff


    w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/la/apost_constitutions/docuмents/hf_p-xii_apc_19451208_vacantis-apostolicae-sedis.html




    This isn't relevant.  What we'd need to know is what conclave rules were in effect before 2013.  If the rules stipulate that such collusion would render the results null and void, then the election would have been null and void.


    Offline Cantarella

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    Reminder about "Team Bergoglio" implications
    « Reply #5 on: April 12, 2016, 11:03:33 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ladislaus
    Quote from: Cantarella
    Quote from: Pope Pius XII, Vacantis Apostolicae Sedis, 1945).
    “None of the Cardinals may, by pretext or reason of any excommunication, suspension, or interdict whatsoever, or of any other ecclesiastical impediment, be excluded from the active and passive election of the Supreme Pontiff


    w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/la/apost_constitutions/docuмents/hf_p-xii_apc_19451208_vacantis-apostolicae-sedis.html




    This isn't relevant.  What we'd need to know is what conclave rules were in effect before 2013.  If the rules stipulate that such collusion would render the results null and void, then the election would have been null and void.


    If that is indeed the teaching that Bishop Faure mentioned in one of his conferences according to Student of Qi, then that is not really "a reform to Canon Law" made by Pope Pius XII because the same teaching is found 40 years before, in 1904, by Pope St. Pius X:

    Quote from: St. Pius X, Vacante Sede Apostolica, 1904
    “None of the Cardinals may be in any way excluded from the active or passive election of the Sovereign Pontiff under pretext or by reason of any excommunication, suspension, interdict or other ecclesiastical impediment” ().
    If anyone says that true and natural water is not necessary for baptism and thus twists into some metaphor the words of our Lord Jesus Christ" Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Spirit" (Jn 3:5) let him be anathema.

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Reminder about "Team Bergoglio" implications
    « Reply #6 on: April 12, 2016, 11:25:35 AM »
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  • Consider this, in order to be excommunicated one must be a Catholic in the first place.  A member of the Church.  It doesn't make sense that the Church can excommunicate a non-member of the Catholic Church.

     I am sure someone will explain to me why my thinking is flawed.   :popcorn:
    Please pray for my soul.
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    Reminder about "Team Bergoglio" implications
    « Reply #7 on: April 12, 2016, 11:52:24 AM »
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  • I found this link if it can be trusted ...
    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm

    I seems only a Baptised person can be excommunicated.  But, there really is a lot to read on the above link about excommunication.  

    Now, the way I heard the story;  Once upon a time the Masons got so angry with the Catholic Church they planned to send their most intelligent men to enter the seminaries, in the hopes that in time, their people would eventually rise to the top and someday they would elect their own pope.   So now the question is were these young imposters ever Baptized and Baptized properly?   I am afraid to say, we will never know for sure, but God knows.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

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