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Author Topic: Bishop Athanasius' Comments About Sedevacantists.  (Read 1133 times)

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Offline Aleah

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Bishop Athanasius' Comments About Sedevacantists.
« on: March 14, 2022, 05:50:14 AM »
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    I am He who is- you are she who is not.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bishop Athanasius' Comments About Sedevacantists.
    « Reply #1 on: March 14, 2022, 08:04:04 AM »
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    • So Bishop Schneider would disagree with XavierNishantSem and the dogmatic R&R that the SVs are heretics.  There's no heresy there.  At best you can argue that they're wrong in their conclusions and misapply some principles of Catholic theology.  I think that it's fair to suggest that the dogmatic SV position can lead to a schismatic mentality (in excluding those who disagree with their conclusions from the Church).  But, then, how are the dogmatic R&R (who declare SVs to be heretics) not guilty of the same thing?

    This notion that Bergoglio is not the legitimate pope is gaining ground, with many of them landing in the intermediate position of Bennyvacantism.  Even Patrick Coffin recently came out as a Bennyvacantist.  Any Catholics with a sense of the faith left simply do not recognize Berogoglio as having the same faith that we do.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bishop Athanasius' Comments About Sedevacantists.
    « Reply #2 on: March 14, 2022, 08:07:12 AM »
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    • +Schneider makes a valid point that the Conciliar emphasis on ecuмenism toward the Orthodox is not consistent with excludiing SVs from the Church, since the latter, unlike the former, do NOT actually reject Catholic teaching regarding the papacy and other defined issues.  Conciliarists admit the Orthodox to the "Catholic" Sacraments, and yet would exclude SVs?
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Bishop Athanasius' Comments About Sedevacantists.
    « Reply #3 on: March 14, 2022, 08:25:11 AM »
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    • Interesting. I'm heartened to see +Schneider recognizing the SV's as, for the most part, orthodox. Yet, he's naive if he thinks they're going to respond to talks from Rome when many of them have issue with the potentially-invalid Holy Orders that most of the hierarchy, including +Schneider, would have. Recall the split that occurred within even R&R once +Fellay started negotiating with Modernist Rome.

    Now, if you're sedeprivationist/impoundist, then a reality of reconciliation under an orthodox Pope would be possible, and even +Sanborn said he would submit if that were the case and V2 were tossed out. But, I doubt many of the hardliner SVists would move toward Rome even if we had an orthodox Pope because of the Holy Orders issue. This includes those in the mindset of the quoted Fr. Cekada.
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Bishop Athanasius' Comments About Sedevacantists.
    « Reply #4 on: March 14, 2022, 09:51:23 AM »
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    Yet, he's naive if he thinks they're going to respond to talks from Rome
    I didn't watch the video...is new-rome actually interested in having talks with all the SV communities?
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bishop Athanasius' Comments About Sedevacantists.
    « Reply #5 on: March 14, 2022, 09:58:52 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on March 14, 2022, 09:51:23 AM
    I didn't watch the video...is new-rome actually interested in having talks with all the SV communities?

    Not particularly.  It was just Bishop Schneider who suggested that they might.  Of course, the SVs would not be interested in speaking with Bergoglio.  Bishop Schneider may have been hinting that Rome should unilaterally grant them the same types of faculties that they extended to the SSPX.
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    Offline DigitalLogos

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    Re: Bishop Athanasius' Comments About Sedevacantists.
    « Reply #6 on: March 14, 2022, 10:08:27 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on March 14, 2022, 09:58:52 AM
    Bishop Schneider may have been hinting that Rome should unilaterally grant them the same types of faculties that they extended to the SSPX.
    Which shows that he really does not understand the SV position
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    "Be not therefore solicitous for tomorrow; for the morrow will be solicitous for itself. Sufficient for the day is the evil thereof." [Matt. 6:34]

    "In all thy works remember thy last end, and thou shalt never sin." [Ecclus. 7:40]

    "A holy man continueth in wisdom as the sun: but a fool is changed as the moon." [Ecclus. 27:12]

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: Bishop Athanasius' Comments About Sedevacantists.
    « Reply #7 on: March 14, 2022, 02:27:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on March 14, 2022, 08:04:04 AM
    So Bishop Schneider would disagree with XavierNishantSem and the dogmatic R&R that the SVs are heretics.  There's no heresy there.  At best you can argue that they're wrong in their conclusions and misapply some principles of Catholic theology.
    As the NO and sedes share the belief that popes are incapable of doing what the conciliar popes have done, consider that the bishop has been NO for his whole life, only recently becoming a "conservative" NO. His NO bent is why he would disagree with R&R. 
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Bishop Athanasius' Comments About Sedevacantists.
    « Reply #8 on: March 14, 2022, 03:17:20 PM »
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    • Quote from: DigitalLogos on March 14, 2022, 08:25:11 AM
    Interesting. I'm heartened to see +Schneider recognizing the SV's as, for the most part, orthodox. Yet, he's naive if he thinks they're going to respond to talks from Rome when many of them have issue with the potentially-invalid Holy Orders that most of the hierarchy, including +Schneider, would have. Recall the split that occurred within even R&R once +Fellay started negotiating with Modernist Rome.

    Now, if you're sedeprivationist/impoundist, then a reality of reconciliation under an orthodox Pope would be possible, and even +Sanborn said he would submit if that were the case and V2 were tossed out. But, I doubt many of the hardliner SVists would move toward Rome even if we had an orthodox Pope because of the Holy Orders issue. This includes those in the mindset of the quoted Fr. Cekada.
    I disagree with the bolded.  I think that would be a secondary issue for most sedes.  If the doctrinal issues were fixed, then Holy Orders could be addressed.

    He's naive to think sedevacantists would respond to "talks" with Rome because sedevacantists don't trust "Rome" as far as they can throw them.  Schneider must think SV's are willing to compromise like SSPXers or indulterers.  But is he naive?
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    Offline Donachie

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    Re: Bishop Athanasius' Comments About Sedevacantists.
    « Reply #9 on: March 14, 2022, 03:35:27 PM »
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    • The notion that Bergoglio is not the legitimate "Pope" or not a legitimate "Pope" gained ground with me a long time ago.

    https://www.fromrome.info/2020/02/05/vatican-intelligence-officer-i-am-a-freemason-and-so-is-bergoglio/

    Tata continues recounting that on the phone call, “Bergoglio’s Vatican Chief of Intelligence told Yussuf that he [the Chief] was a mason and so was Bergoglio.” Tata says, “This was on ‘La Nación’. You could have listened to it yourselves. I listened to it because I had to give it credit.

    https://www.facebook.com/888396911221449/posts/pope-francis-is-a-freemasonthe-head-vatican-intelligence-officer-in-argentina-af/2848198045241316/

    https://www.sanctamissa.pl/en/vaticanum-ii-antichurch/antipope-jorge-mario-bergoglio-aka-francis/antipope-francis-is-a-freemason/

    Apparently "Pope" Francis on occasion throws a  little "signum marrano" too.
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    Offline B from A

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    Re: Bishop Athanasius' Comments About Sedevacantists.
    « Reply #10 on: March 14, 2022, 04:49:13 PM »
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    • Quote from: 2Vermont on March 14, 2022, 03:17:20 PM
    He's naive to think sedevacantists would respond to "talks" with Rome because sedevacantists don't trust "Rome" as far as they can throw them. 

    We would all have to hear/read +Schneider's original words.  I did not get the impression from this video that he thinks it's likely that SVs would "talk" to Rome, or that he was hinting that Rome should unilaterally grant them the same types of faculties that they extended to the SSPX, or any such thing.  What I thought I heard was him pointing out  that Rome is somewhat hypocritical if they can have ecuмenical talks etc. with Orthodox (i.e. non-Catholics), treating SVs as less Catholic than non-Catholic "Orthodox". 

    Quote
    Schneider said the “ecuмenical dialogue” with which the Vatican has been “very much engaged” in with the Orthodox in past decades should, if the Holy See is being consistent, be extended to sedevacantists, since they are “closer to us than the orthodox,” and “do not deny any dogma directly,” including the dogma of the primacy of the pope.

    Quote
    He thinks an effort to approach sedevacantists, however, “would be only possible when in Rome, Divine Providence will grant again strong and courageous … orthodox popes, who proclaim and promote the complete integrity of the Catholic faith, liturgy and morals.”


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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: Bishop Athanasius' Comments About Sedevacantists.
    « Reply #11 on: March 14, 2022, 05:07:08 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on March 14, 2022, 02:27:03 PM
    As the NO and sedes share the belief that popes are incapable of doing what the conciliar popes have done, consider that the bishop has been NO for his whole life, only recently becoming a "conservative" NO. His NO bent is why he would disagree with R&R.

    Bishop Schneider did not say he disagreed with R&R either.  He says that both positions are tenable for Catholics who still have the faith.
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