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Author Topic: Religious Liberty  (Read 3281 times)

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Offline Geremia

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Re: Religious Liberty
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2018, 09:21:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: OurFatherRN1 on November 08, 2018, 03:34:42 PM
    If the civil authorities forced you to go to Catholic Church only, would you be free to go to Catholic Church?
    How can someone force me to do what I already do?
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    Offline OurFatherRN1

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    Re: Religious Liberty
    « Reply #16 on: November 18, 2018, 12:14:45 PM »
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    • Someone can force you to do what you usually do by many ways, command, threat, any kind of persuasion.  Doesn't the Church force you to go Mass, under pain of eternal hellfire?  Doesn't the Church force you?
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Religious Liberty
    « Reply #17 on: November 18, 2018, 06:30:18 PM »
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    • Quote from: OurFatherRN1 on November 08, 2018, 03:34:42 PM
    If the civil authorities forced you to go to Catholic Church only, would you be free to go to Catholic Church?
    Wut?  This makes no sense whatsoever.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

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    Re: Religious Liberty
    « Reply #18 on: November 18, 2018, 10:45:42 PM »
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    • Catholicism should be the only official religion of the nation-state. All non-Catholics are free to practice their false religion in their own homes and privacy, but they can't publicly assemble and "worship", nor can proselytize other citizens into their false religions, lest they face civil reprimands. This is an example of a Catholic nation-state's teaching and social order being opposed to religious liberty. This is what the Church essentially taught and practiced in Catholic nations before ʝʊdɛօ-masonic revolutions usurped the Church and Catholic monarchies.
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    Offline TheJovialInquisitor

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    Re: Religious Liberty
    « Reply #19 on: November 18, 2018, 11:44:09 PM »
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    ll non-Catholics are free to practice their false religion in their own homes and privacy, but they can't publicly assemble and "worship"
    Wasn't that a privilege of the Christian states, and not a moral obligation?
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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Religious Liberty
    « Reply #20 on: November 19, 2018, 08:35:06 AM »
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    • Quote from: Quid Retribuam Domino on November 18, 2018, 10:45:42 PM
    Catholicism should be the only official religion of the nation-state. All non-Catholics are free to practice their false religion in their own homes and privacy, but they can't publicly assemble and "worship", nor can proselytize other citizens into their false religions, lest they face civil reprimands. This is an example of a Catholic nation-state's teaching and social order being opposed to religious liberty. This is what the Church essentially taught and practiced in Catholic nations before ʝʊdɛօ-masonic revolutions usurped the Church and Catholic monarchies.
    That is Catholic religious liberty. 
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    Offline Quid Retribuam Domino

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    Re: Religious Liberty
    « Reply #21 on: November 19, 2018, 12:25:04 PM »
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    • Quote from: Last Tradhican on November 19, 2018, 08:35:06 AM
    That is Catholic religious liberty.

    Religious liberty is heresy and a sin. The Church opposes religious liberty by mandating Catholicism as the official religion of a Catholic nation-state, and the only religion that can be expressed in public worship of God. This honors Christ's Social Reign on earth, and it's the foundation of a civilization. However, the Church still recognizes free will. Free will is not to be confused and conflated with religious liberty. People are still allowed to privately "worship" their false gods, or remain as atheists, as long as they don't publicly express their paganism, heresies and faithlessness.

    The Lord Jesus Christ doesn't force people to believe in and worship Him. It wouldn't be true Faith if they were forced to do it, or they were created like mechanical beings with no free will rendering "supplications" to Him. He gives everyone free will. The Church recognizes this ontological reality and advocates it in a Catholic nation-state, as long as Catholicism is the sole official religion and the only Faith allowed to be publicly expressed and practiced for the good of civilization and the flock.
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    From the woman came the beginning of sin, and by her we all die. ~ Ecclesiasticus 25:33

    International Women's Day is a day we all celebrate Eve's rebellion at the Tree and our plummet into sin.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Religious Liberty
    « Reply #22 on: November 19, 2018, 03:15:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: Quid Retribuam Domino on November 19, 2018, 12:25:04 PM
    Religious liberty (as defined in Vatican II is a false religious liberty) is heresy and a sin. The Church opposes (VAT II's definition of ) religious liberty by mandating Catholicism as the official religion of a Catholic nation-state, and the only religion that can be expressed in public worship of God (that is the true religious liberty of the Catholic Church). This honors Christ's Social Reign on earth, and it's the foundation of a civilization. However, the Church still recognizes free will. Free will is not to be confused and conflated with  (a right to worship in any other religion, which is what Vatican II defined, and is a false religious liberty) religious liberty. People (still have the power) and are still allowed to privately "worship" their false gods, or remain as atheists, as long as they don't publicly express their paganism, heresies and faithlessness.

    The Lord Jesus Christ doesn't force people to believe in and worship Him. It wouldn't be true Faith if they were forced to do it, or they were created like mechanical beings with no free will rendering "supplications" to Him. He gives everyone free will. The Church recognizes this ontological reality and advocates it in a Catholic nation-state, as long as Catholicism is the sole official religion and the only Faith allowed to be publicly expressed and practiced for the good of civilization and the flock.
    My corrections above in red will better clarify what I wrote above.

    True religious liberty was practiced in Brazil, where Catholicism was the state religion, and all the other false religions were permitted to have their meeting places, but no signs could be placed outside of the building (a type of advertising) to indicate what it was and they were not allowed to proselytize or advertise.
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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline OurFatherRN1

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    Re: Religious Liberty
    « Reply #23 on: November 21, 2018, 04:11:36 PM »
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    • Basically, everyone, I am saying that everything that is done, is Religious Liberty, no matter what, no matter any which way whatsoever, everything is Religious Liberty.  Without liberty, in Religion, always, there could be no chance to sin, and no chance to merit.  Religious Liberty, as such, in and of itself, is a philosophical necessity.  Does anyone here agree?
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Religious Liberty
    « Reply #24 on: November 21, 2018, 05:14:42 PM »
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    • You confuse religious liberty with free will.
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    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Religious Liberty
    « Reply #25 on: November 21, 2018, 05:15:25 PM »
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    • Quote from: OurFatherRN1 on November 21, 2018, 04:11:36 PM
    Basically, everyone, I am saying that everything that is done, is Religious Liberty, no matter what, no matter any which way whatsoever, everything is Religious Liberty.  Without liberty, in Religion, always, there could be no chance to sin, and no chance to merit.  Religious Liberty, as such, in and of itself, is a philosophical necessity.  Does anyone here agree?
    Liberty means the power to choose. We all have the power to choose. That is all liberty is. 
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    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline OurFatherRN1

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    Re: Religious Liberty
    « Reply #26 on: November 22, 2018, 07:13:41 PM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir on November 21, 2018, 05:14:42 PM
    You confuse religious liberty with free will.
    Does your free will, have Religious Liberty, in any way, whatsoever?
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    Offline BTNYC

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    Re: Religious Liberty
    « Reply #27 on: November 22, 2018, 09:29:13 PM »
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    • Quote from: OurFatherRN1 on November 22, 2018, 07:13:41 PM
    Does your free will, have Religious Liberty, in any way, whatsoever?

    Nadir clarified the matter very nicely, and you've managed to muddy it up again by confusing these concepts.

    I'm not sure what's difficult to understand here. Man has free will. He is free to choose good or evil. Religious Liberty is a false teaching, formally condemned by the Catholic Church, that posits that man has the right to choose whatever religion he wants. This is wrong. Error has no rights. Man has the duty to belong to the Catholic Church, and to profess the Catholic Faith. However, God does not compel us by means which violate our free will to enter His Church. Everyone is free to reject God's grace, though the price for that decision is eternal damnation, for we do not have the right to reject God's grace.
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    Offline poche

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    Re: Religious Liberty
    « Reply #28 on: November 23, 2018, 12:18:38 AM »
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    • Judging from the demographics and the social situation I don't see that happening anytime soon here in America.   
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Religious Liberty
    « Reply #29 on: November 23, 2018, 01:59:42 AM »
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    • Quote from: OurFatherRN1 on November 22, 2018, 07:13:41 PM
    Does your free will, have Religious Liberty, in any way, whatsoever?
    My free will embraces the Catholic Faith, and I pray that I my free will will continue on that path until the day I die. Of course, I am free to chose error, but I pray to be protected from that error which would indeed lead me into spiritual enslavement and eventually to eternal damnation. I hope that answers your question.
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    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.
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