Someone wrote in:

Williams went from writing books about the minutes of novus ordo USCCB meetings  - i.e. paint drying on the wall is more interesting - to his 2004 crossover work of 'Money, Murder and the Mafia in the Vatican' in which the CIA (& Mossad) used him to troll the Siri groupies about secret FBI & State Dept. docuмents affirming Siri's election.

     Nope!

     A  small research contingent persisted in FOIA requests over a couple years, in spite of reclassification of previously declassified material, even contacted Williams ourselves and none of his file numbers were accurate, and finally obtained EVERYTHING they had in the FBI & State files for the Vatican for a seven year period amounting to a four and a half foot tall stack of docuмents - AND THERE IS NOTHING IN THERE!

    Later when Williams was again contacted and pressured, he backpeddled and stammered and again LIED OUT HIS ASS that Siri's election was only something he and Malachi Martin had been told by Avro Manhattan when they were working for the National Review. In other words the statement of the eixistence of the docuмents is a complete lie and now by the notice your poster received it appears he many now be doing it again.

    After the 2004 book all the books he wrote trolled the neocon spook storyline of A-l Q-u-a-e-d-a and loose n-u-k-e-s. He finally shut up for awhile after he accused McGill University in Montreal of having missing 'radioactive material' and they planned to sue him.

   So what do the two tall tales have in common - because after Oswald they wised up and never used the same troll or patsy on two unconnected plots: i.e. setting up a new nuclear version of The Gunpowder Plot targeting Rome and trolling one individual in particular to be used as the Guy Fawkes patsy to take down all traditional Catholics with him. Williams specifically went on about finally convincing Tom Clancy that one individual was capable of partnering with and financing a radical Muslim group in a possible urban venture of this sort.  Shooting off his mouth to Clancy about this is what in my opinion got Clancy "Breitbarted".

   At the time I was wondering if Williams was going to 'convert' to traddie-land to further the deception. Now that he is claiming to have done so I am going back on the alert.

Some of the best information uncovered, comes from the numerous official US Government docuмents between the US Italian Embassy in Rome and Washington in the 20th century.  The US did not have formal diplomatic ties with Vatican City, so both sides often communicated through the US Italian Embassy in Rome, as their sole point of contact.

Of course, because the Vatican City-State can fall back on only 1500 years of experience

• with diplomacy, mere apostolic delegates stationed in D.C. from 1893 to 1980 couldn't possibly have figured out any way to accomplish any diplomatic tasks.  Especially that Titular Abp. Amleto Giovanni Cicognani, who was awarded the red hat after 1/4 century in that role, in Dec. 1958 (thus including all of World War II 
• ), less than 2 months into the papacy of John XXIII.  Cicognani was famously conservative, and considered among papabili after the death of Pope John XXIII in 1963
• .  With establishment of formal relations in 1984 during the Reagan-Thatcher-John Paul II years, Vatican City-State stationed either a pro-nuncio or a (less exalted) nuncio in its own building on Embassy Row in D.C.
  
  --------------
  Note #: Counting from no later than the successful mission of Pope St. Leo I "the Great", with 2 Roman senators, north to the camp of Attila the Hun in the Po Valley (A.D. 452).
  
  Note @: During the Allied mostly-U.S.-&-Brit Italian Campaign (1943--1945), the U.S. Fifth Army under Gen. Mark Clark occupied Rome unopposed (the German Army had declared it an open city), but hey, why would the Vatican's D.C.-stationed apostolic delegate have any diplomatic interest in visiting U.S. officials in D.C. about that?  I'm sure that during 1941--1944, the attitude of the increasingly skeptical nαzι allies of the Italian fascist government toward any U.S. diplomats in Rome would've been a welcoming "Unsere Haus is Seine Haus", warmed by congenial "Heil Hilter! " and "Viva il Duce! "
  
  Note *: At least by LIFE magazine.  I remember Card. Cicognani's name from its issues on the 1963 papal funeral and upcoming (papal) election.  Glossy full-color and nearly full-page portraits on oversized pages, back when t.v. was black-&-white for almost all United Statesians who weren't conspicuously affluent.  If I can believe Wikipedia--which I leaned on heavily for dates herein--U.S. sales of color t.v.s didn't pass those of b-&-w t.v.s until 1972 (for U.S. perspective, not only the year of the landslide reëlection of Richard Nixon as President of the U.S., versus Sen. George McGovern, but also of the months-earlier Watergate break-in).

Some of the best information uncovered, comes from the numerous official US Government docuмents between the US Italian Embassy in Rome and Washington[/b] in the 20th century. The US did not have formal diplomatic ties with Vatican City, so both sides often communicated through the US Italian Embassy in Rome, as their sole point of contact.

To research exclusively at the various archival libraries, only in DC, for "Vatican City to US" docuмents, provides little relevant data.

This very interesting... and worth a new topic on historical cross-referencing.

I'm unfamiliar with the characters you mention and never thought about "cross-reference" research on the CIA involvement in the 1958 Conclave ?

But, if one understands that the ʝʊdɛօ-masons had already infiltrated the Vatican by then, at least you know what to be looking for.

Mary Ball Martinez's book, The UNDERMINING of the CATHOLIC CHURCH, is loaded with betrayal events that need historical cross references.

For example, I was fascinated to learn about the Australian Jєωess, Miss Rosemary Goldie.
She had infiltrated the Vatican and later became the Undersecretary of the Pontifical Council of the Laity.



And the excerpt from Martinez's book, page 109:

  By the late 1950's the days of Eugenio Pacelli were drawing to a close and the time of the Council approaching. Unusual light is thrown on the feverish activity of that time by Elizbeth Gerstner, an assistant to the German who headed the Bonn office of the Lay Apostolate, a newly set-up Vatican organization. It was the illness of her chief that brought young Mrs. Gerstner to the central office, some twenty rooms in a complex of old buildings in Rome's Piazza di San Calisto.

The coordination and promotion of major assemblies throughout the world was the aim of work carried out with strenuous efficiency by a staff of twenty-five under the direction of Miss Rosemary Goldie. daughter of a Jєωιѕн newspaperman in Australia.

From the beginning, Mrs. Gerstner was astonished at the familiarity with which Miss Goldie and other members of the staff treated Curial cardinals and bishops. There was no difficulty in communicating them at any hour of the day. Gradually it dawned on her how important the committee was, function as a kind of processing center for every phase of hierarchy-laity relations throughout the world.

In retrospect, however, the center has taken on an even greater significance for her (Goldie)
as an antechamber of the Second Vatican Council.

And now, here is the cross-reference, to prove Goldie was an infiltrator and long standing enemy "operative":

Rosemary Goldie and the Santamaria Split
Bruce Duncan |  10 March 2010   LINK

Crusade or Conspiracy: Catholics and the Anti-Communist Struggle in Australia, by Bruce DuncanFew women have played such an important recent role in the Catholic Church as Rosemary Goldie, who died on 27 February at the age of 94, after some years' retirement in the Little Sisters of the Poor at Randwick in Sydney.
From the early 1950s Goldie worked in the Vatican as secretary to Vittorino Veronese (later director general of UNESCO) in the Permanent Committee for International Congresses of Catholic Action (COPECIAL), which was encouraging the development of Catholic Action in various parts of the world.

She saw her work as helping to clarify the new roles for lay activity in the Church and in wider spheres, roles that were strongly endorsed by the Second Vatican Council.

She continued to develop the new direction, not just in her organisational role, but through her extensive range of personal contacts as well as her writings, including in European Catholic journals. She also lectured at the Pontifical Lateran University in later years.

Petite, open and honest in her views, Goldie was nevertheless very professional and conscientious in her work. She was also a gifted linguist, and understood well the theological debates of the time.

At a time when very few women worked at senior levels in the Vatican, Goldie earned the respect of colleagues and ecclesiastics, including the popes of her time. She was one of the few women auditors at the Second Vatican Council, and through COPECIAL contributed to the formation of Council docuмents on the lay apostolate.

Of special interest to Australians are her role and observations on the debates about the Santamaria anti-communist Movement from early 1954. I owe Goldie a special debt of gratitude because of her help in clarifying the views of the International Secretariat of Catholic Action about the Movement.

Goldie had met Santamaria in the 1940s when he gave some lectures at the Grail training course, 'The Quest', but she left Australia in 1945. While still a member of the Grail, she worked for Pax Romana, the international organisation of Catholic intellectuals. She went as a delegate for Pax Romana to the 1951 Congress of Catholic Action in Rome, but was caught up helping organise its 'chaotic' secretariate.
Her successful intervention there resulted in her accepting what became a long-term position as secretary in COPECIAL, where she also worked closely with Mgr (later Cardinal) Pietro Pavan, one of the leading thinkers in Catholic Action, and later the main author of Pope John XXIII's famous 1963 social encyclical, Peace on Earth.

Pavan was deeply influenced by the thinking of the philosopher, Jacques Maritain (whom Rosemary had heard lecture in France). He insisted on the distinction between Catholic Action, which was properly action undertaken under Church direction, and the 'action of Catholics', which was to be lay people acting independently in their social and political affairs, but with the inspiration of the Gospel and Church social teaching.

This matter had been of concern in various countries, and the international secretariat was intent on keeping the Church's Catholic Action organisations clear of direct political action.

In July 1953, Santamaria wrote to Goldie proposing a social action conference in Melbourne, which he intended to use to extend his model of direct political involvement by a Church organisation throughout South-East Asia. Goldie and her colleagues in the Rome secretariate were alarmed at the implications. She met Santamaria in Melbourne later in the year, but was unable to convince him of the need to keep Catholic Action out of direct political involvements.

Goldie maintained close contact with colleagues in Sydney and Melbourne, and acted as a conduit of information to the Vatican secretariate, as Santamaria pursued his efforts to set up his Pan-Pacific organisation on the Movement model, even after the Labor Split in 1955.

When the Sydney alignment of bishops went to Rome in late 1956 to appeal for Vatican intervention to resolve the Movement dispute, Goldie did some secretarial work for Cardinal Gilroy. The case for both sides of the Movement dispute was presented for the commission of cardinals to judge, and Pavan was nominated to present the case against the Movement model, which he did convincingly. The Vatican directed that the Movement was to cease its political activities.

Goldie continued to monitor the affair as it unfolded in following years, but was mainly involved with her work helping coordinate and encourage Catholic lay movements throughout the world. In 1959, she became executive secretary of COPECIAL, and in 1966 under-secretary for the Vatican's new Council for the Laity.

Goldie had no personal animus against Santamaria, and admired his dedication to defeating the communist hold on key trade unions, as well as his efforts to translate Catholic social principles into practical policies. But she was disconcerted by his refusal to concede the matters of principle involved in the Movement dispute, and dismayed by the Movement's defiance of clear directives from the Holy See.

Goldie blazed a path for other intelligent, committed women in fashioning new roles even at senior levels in Church organisations. Her autobiography was published in 1998, From a Roman Window — Five Decades: the World, the Church and the Catholic Laity (Melbourne: Harper Collins).

Responses to this article:

'Santamaria and the bishops in politics' — Gerard Henderson, executive director of the Sydney Institute, responds to Bruce Duncan's article

Mrs martinez is full of it..... :roll-laugh1:

Quote from: ranlare (Feb 24, 2017, 2:16 am)

Some of the best information uncovered, comes from the numerous official US Government docuмents between the US Italian Embassy in Rome and Washington in the 20th century.  The US did not have formal diplomatic ties with Vatican City, so both sides often communicated through the US Italian Embassy in Rome, as their sole point of contact.

Of course, [...], mere [Vatican] apostolic delegates stationed in D.C. from 1893 to 1980 couldn't possibly have figured out any way to accomplish any diplomatic tasks.  

Despite my deliberate use of bold-face formatting in my initial reply above ("#p3"), you completely refused to address the main points in my reply, i.e.:
· You were wrong in claiming that the US Italian Embassy in Rome was the "sole point of contact" between the 2 sovereign countries.
· You ignore World War II, which was more than a mere inconvenience in Rome for U.S. diplomats during the papacy of Pius XII.  If your sources consider those war years irrelevant to "the Crisis of the Papacy" and its docuмentation in the embassy in Rome of a foreign country conducting hostile military operations, you're overdue to tell readers of CathInfo.

Instead, I see that you've decided to change the subject, to distract readers from your unremedied failings.

AlligatorDicax said to Ranlare:
Instead, I see that you've decided to change the subject, to distract readers from your unremedied failings.



       Now boys... settle down.  It's almost Lent.

Quote from: roscoe

Mrs martinez is full of it..... :roll-laugh1:

Why is she "full of it" you silly guy? :smile:

She is after Card Rampolla & Pius XII dummy... :detective: