Author Topic: Reading the V2 Council documents  (Read 729 times)

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Online PG

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Re: Reading the V2 Council documents
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2018, 07:28:25 PM »
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  • It is interesting.  I have pages and pages of notes I have taken of parts that are problematic.  However, they are almost all simply due to ambiguity.  And, ambiguity partly uses as a vehicle catholicism, so it is difficult raising my objection to the level of having to blow of the steam in a post about it.  yes, it is problematic, but not always enough to get me to rage about it.  However, the ambiguity like I mentioned is pages and pages worth.  If ambiguity is a problem, and it is, then 95% of the council is not acceptable.  I would say that only 5% of the council(so far at least, I am only 3-5 documents into it) is acceptable.  The ambiguity is that bad as we can see, and it floods the documents.  I think that is why we see such small books(time bombs) covering this massive council, and why you have me mentioning that I have pages and pages worth, but have only posted about 5% of my notes in this forum.  It is an interesting phenomenon.  I would like to post about so much, but am really not inclined.  Because, it could be interpreted that I am criticizing catholicism.  It is interesting to me. 

    You really have to read it for yourself.  Which, I don't really recommend.  It is a labor.  And, there is the time bombs book and surely a couple others by sspx to read that are a good read.  

    Ambiguity in catechesis("pastoral" council remember), which is a novel idea and why we say novelty, with strategically placed time bombs, is really the main problem with the council.  

    However, I am not sure that you can have ambiguity without the time bombs.  They are really a product of what the ambiguity implies.  This is why you see +Fellay saying such favorable things about the jews(older brothers, 6 million holocaust true and real crap).  Fellay thinks 95% of the council is acceptable, and voila, fellay no longer is wary of the jews, and parades in front of them in interviews like a fool.  They are twin sisters.  Reading these documents really lowers my opinion of Fellay.  Because, 95% of the council is not acceptable.  Unless you have an ambiguous interpretation of what the word acceptable is.  Do you see where it leads?  "It depends on what the meaning of the word is is"?  Catholics are traditionalists, we are not revolutionaries, as st. Pius X said.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Online PG

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council documents
    « Reply #31 on: May 01, 2018, 01:56:06 PM »
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  • The church today # 58 - "But at the same time, the church, sent to all peoples of every time and place, is not bound exclusively and indissolubly to any race or nation, nor to any particular way of life or any customary pattern of living, ancient or recent. 

    What this is saying in my opinion is that there is no such thing as a catholic culture.  What it is doing here is combining something true(culture-ism) with something false(racism and nationalism) in order to get away with condemning something true(culture-ism) in its blanket condemnation.  This way, catholics can never use culture as an instrument of evangelization.  And, culture is a very important tool in evangelizing.  The pearls belong to the pigs(the enemies of God), and the pig is cast before Christs pearl(the church).  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Online PG

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council documents
    « Reply #32 on: May 01, 2018, 02:16:05 PM »
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  • The church today # 69 - "If a person is in extreme necessity, he has the right to take from the riches of others what he himself needs".  And, v2 cites thomas aquinas in this.  Apparently aquinas says "in extreme necessity all goods are common, that is all goods are to be shared".  

    Is this not theft?  As far as I know there is such a thing as "river law", suggesting to me that all water is accessible and free.  But, I have never heard of "bread law" for the hungry, or "clothing law" for the naked, or shelter law for the homeless, or any other law of corporal necessity.  Oh wait, in our society we have cell phone law(free cell phones for the homeless).  Other than that, we cannot walk up into a store and pluck some clothing because of perceived extreme necessity.  Christ was crucified with only a towel around the waist as clothing, so perhaps adam an eves plant leaf is done away with, but outside of that, I don't know where Christ approves of such theft as this.  


    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Online PG

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council documents
    « Reply #33 on: May 01, 2018, 02:22:37 PM »
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  • The church today # 42 - "christ gave his church no proper mission in the political, economic, or social order".  Does I even need to comment?  This seems outrageous to say the least.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council documents
    « Reply #34 on: May 01, 2018, 02:34:37 PM »
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  • We can all use a good laugh(or cry).  Church today # 38 - "He cals some to give clear witness to the desire for a heavenly home and to keep that desire green among the human family".  

    Green is not always a sign of life.  Gangrene is a sign of death.  This is how flawed this ambiguious v2 linguistic philosophy is.  There was another one, where it said "let the gospel ferment".  Fermentation is not always a good thing.  I think the swamp is at times a product of fermentation, and those are not waters of life.  Can you even baptize with swamp water?
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council documents
    « Reply #35 on: May 01, 2018, 07:27:59 PM »
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  • "the mother of jesus continues in this present world as the image and first flowering of the church as she is to be perfected in the world to come. Likewise, mary shines forth on earth, until the day of the lord shall come as a sign of sure hope and solace for the pilgrim people of God.

    Could the "she" here mean the church, rather than Mary? That the church is to be perfected in the world to come? The church is always spoken of in the feminine form "she"; like a ship is always referred to as "she". Either way, it's poorly worded and confusing. If it is meant to speak of Our Lady, then I agree that it smells heretical.
    Would that not be just as problematic?  Is the Church not a "perfect society"?

    Offline poche

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council documents
    « Reply #36 on: May 02, 2018, 02:23:55 AM »
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  • The church today # 42 - "christ gave his church no proper mission in the political, economic, or social order".  Does I even need to comment?  This seems outrageous to say the least.  
    That is true in the sense that the Church is not here to serve a particular political party. 

     

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