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Author Topic: Reading the V2 Council docuмents  (Read 3090 times)

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Offline PG

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Re: Reading the V2 Council docuмents
« Reply #30 on: April 21, 2018, 07:28:25 PM »
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  • It is interesting.  I have pages and pages of notes I have taken of parts that are problematic.  However, they are almost all simply due to ambiguity.  And, ambiguity partly uses as a vehicle catholicism, so it is difficult raising my objection to the level of having to blow of the steam in a post about it.  yes, it is problematic, but not always enough to get me to rage about it.  However, the ambiguity like I mentioned is pages and pages worth.  If ambiguity is a problem, and it is, then 95% of the council is not acceptable.  I would say that only 5% of the council(so far at least, I am only 3-5 docuмents into it) is acceptable.  The ambiguity is that bad as we can see, and it floods the docuмents.  I think that is why we see such small books(time bombs) covering this massive council, and why you have me mentioning that I have pages and pages worth, but have only posted about 5% of my notes in this forum.  It is an interesting phenomenon.  I would like to post about so much, but am really not inclined.  Because, it could be interpreted that I am criticizing catholicism.  It is interesting to me. 

    You really have to read it for yourself.  Which, I don't really recommend.  It is a labor.  And, there is the time bombs book and surely a couple others by sspx to read that are a good read.  

    Ambiguity in catechesis("pastoral" council remember), which is a novel idea and why we say novelty, with strategically placed time bombs, is really the main problem with the council.  

    However, I am not sure that you can have ambiguity without the time bombs.  They are really a product of what the ambiguity implies.  This is why you see +Fellay saying such favorable things about the Jєωs(older brothers, 6 million h0Ɩ0cαųst true and real crap).  Fellay thinks 95% of the council is acceptable, and voila, fellay no longer is wary of the Jєωs, and parades in front of them in interviews like a fool.  They are twin sisters.  Reading these docuмents really lowers my opinion of Fellay.  Because, 95% of the council is not acceptable.  Unless you have an ambiguous interpretation of what the word acceptable is.  Do you see where it leads?  "It depends on what the meaning of the word is is"?  Catholics are traditionalists, we are not revolutionaries, as st. Pius X said.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline PG

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council docuмents
    « Reply #31 on: May 01, 2018, 01:56:06 PM »
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  • The church today # 58 - "But at the same time, the church, sent to all peoples of every time and place, is not bound exclusively and indissolubly to any race or nation, nor to any particular way of life or any customary pattern of living, ancient or recent. 

    What this is saying in my opinion is that there is no such thing as a catholic culture.  What it is doing here is combining something true(culture-ism) with something false(racism and nationalism) in order to get away with condemning something true(culture-ism) in its blanket condemnation.  This way, catholics can never use culture as an instrument of evangelization.  And, culture is a very important tool in evangelizing.  The pearls belong to the pigs(the enemies of God), and the pig is cast before Christs pearl(the church).  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline PG

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council docuмents
    « Reply #32 on: May 01, 2018, 02:16:05 PM »
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  • The church today # 69 - "If a person is in extreme necessity, he has the right to take from the riches of others what he himself needs".  And, v2 cites thomas aquinas in this.  Apparently aquinas says "in extreme necessity all goods are common, that is all goods are to be shared".  

    Is this not theft?  As far as I know there is such a thing as "river law", suggesting to me that all water is accessible and free.  But, I have never heard of "bread law" for the hungry, or "clothing law" for the naked, or shelter law for the homeless, or any other law of corporal necessity.  Oh wait, in our society we have cell phone law(free cell phones for the homeless).  Other than that, we cannot walk up into a store and pluck some clothing because of perceived extreme necessity.  Christ was crucified with only a towel around the waist as clothing, so perhaps adam an eves plant leaf is done away with, but outside of that, I don't know where Christ approves of such theft as this.  


    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline PG

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council docuмents
    « Reply #33 on: May 01, 2018, 02:22:37 PM »
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  • The church today # 42 - "christ gave his church no proper mission in the political, economic, or social order".  Does I even need to comment?  This seems outrageous to say the least.  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline PG

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council docuмents
    « Reply #34 on: May 01, 2018, 02:34:37 PM »
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  • We can all use a good laugh(or cry).  Church today # 38 - "He cals some to give clear witness to the desire for a heavenly home and to keep that desire green among the human family".  

    Green is not always a sign of life.  Gangrene is a sign of death.  This is how flawed this ambiguious v2 linguistic philosophy is.  There was another one, where it said "let the gospel ferment".  Fermentation is not always a good thing.  I think the swamp is at times a product of fermentation, and those are not waters of life.  Can you even baptize with swamp water?
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline TKGS

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council docuмents
    « Reply #35 on: May 01, 2018, 07:27:59 PM »
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  • "the mother of jesus continues in this present world as the image and first flowering of the church as she is to be perfected in the world to come. Likewise, mary shines forth on earth, until the day of the lord shall come as a sign of sure hope and solace for the pilgrim people of God.

    Could the "she" here mean the church, rather than Mary? That the church is to be perfected in the world to come? The church is always spoken of in the feminine form "she"; like a ship is always referred to as "she". Either way, it's poorly worded and confusing. If it is meant to speak of Our Lady, then I agree that it smells heretical.
    Would that not be just as problematic?  Is the Church not a "perfect society"?

    Offline poche

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council docuмents
    « Reply #36 on: May 02, 2018, 02:23:55 AM »
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  • The church today # 42 - "christ gave his church no proper mission in the political, economic, or social order".  Does I even need to comment?  This seems outrageous to say the least.  
    That is true in the sense that the Church is not here to serve a particular political party. 

    Offline PG

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council docuмents
    « Reply #37 on: May 29, 2018, 03:31:17 PM »
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  • Here might be a real time bomb.  It is from the docuмent on church missions.  point # 21 - 

    "The church has not been truly established, and is not yet fully alive, nor is it a perfect sign of Christ among men, unless there exists a laity worthy of the name working along with the hierarchy.  For the gospel cannot be deeply imprinted on the talents, life, and work of any people without active presence of laymen."

    On its face, this seems wrong enough.  But, then I thought about how the apostles were in the upper room with our Lady prior to the descent of the holy ghost.  Catholic imagery depicts our lady among the apostles during the descent of the holy ghost/fire tongues.  That for a brief moment held back my wrath concerning this passage of V2.  However, not for long.  Because, one, that is historical, our lady has already been assumed into heaven.  And, two, with V2 and the new church, we see replacements of the virgin mary developing.  A good example is found in the writings of sister faustina, how god elevates her above any creature up until that point.  Not only that, but access to God in false religions often relies on the utility of women in the process.  Being that v2 is a false religion, we can perhaps safely suspect such ideas developing(abomination of desolation women all over the altar).

    If you study louis de montfort, you will find that louis de montfort exalts a woman also above the historical virgin mary by confusing our lady with a murderous godess temporal queen(which can exist, just recall england).  Not only that, but elsewhere women in various manifestations are placed on an equal type footing with Jesus(year of mercy logo).  A louis de montfort evengelist/promoter here on CI even said that the church always has with it throughout all ages a "half human half divine creature"(bingo, there is our girl again).  I think this is who this v2 passage may be referring to and making room for by teaching such.  This passage may be a real hell raiser.

    You will be surprised to find that modern novus ordo women love the concept of the 5th mediatrix marian dogma.  I have personally seen it in their eyes.  Womens minds work differently than mens.  And, it is not difficult to gather what it means.  It means feminism 2.0


    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline PG

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council docuмents
    « Reply #38 on: May 29, 2018, 05:46:27 PM »
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  • It is interesting to note the lamentable trend over the past 700 years to centralize education and seminary training.  Vatican 2 in this sense did not disappoint.  The apprentice seminary system was fully canned with the council of trent.   And with v2, you now have the endorsement of "seminaries serving several dioceses, a whole national section, or a nation itself should be set up and fostered".   
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council docuмents
    « Reply #39 on: May 30, 2018, 01:12:20 AM »
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  • I think you should take the time to read the docuмents themselves.
    Oh boy! what an incredibly stupid statement! Did you even read the Opening Post.
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council docuмents
    « Reply #40 on: May 30, 2018, 07:26:08 AM »
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  • The church today # 69 - "If a person is in extreme necessity, he has the right to take from the riches of others what he himself needs".  And, v2 cites thomas aquinas in this.  Apparently aquinas says "in extreme necessity all goods are common, that is all goods are to be shared". 
    I would not even read those docuмents if I were you, the danger here is they are designed to confuse and confound whoever reads the evil things. There are many places within those lying V2 docuмents where they falsely reference St. Thomas, Trent, V1, saints, Doctors and Fathers, etc,.

    It is only a matter of time, you will be defeated by the immense amount of nonsensical ambiguity offering multiple, meaningless meanings to nearly everything - but clarity usually surfaces, however  briefly, whenever there is a particular truth that they want to twist into a particular error.


     

       
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse


    Offline JPaul

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council docuмents
    « Reply #41 on: May 30, 2018, 09:06:27 AM »
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  • The docuмents on their face contain heresy, error, blashpemies, lies and insults against the the Church.
    It is sufficient to know this.
    The erroneous idea that they can be read in the light of Tradition is false, for what it does is to read a Traditional meaning into something which from its conception is not Traditional.
    This false idea which has been used for decades to keep Catholics decieved as to the true nature of this
    Jєωιѕн/Freemasonic attack upon the Faith of Chistians.

    Like the New Order service they are not orthodox, and are not Catholic. When Rome approved and accepted these docuмents, She became the font of heterodoxy and doctrinal corruption.

    Offline PG

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council docuмents
    « Reply #42 on: May 30, 2018, 11:15:08 AM »
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  • There was a section regarding auxiliary bishops.  And, I couldn't help but think about how it seems detrimental to have all of these degrees of bishops.  Has there within the church ever been criticism of having bishops like auxiliary for example probably functioning as nothing more than monsignors?  It seems like an injustice.  "Today I consecrate thee a bishop, and I sentence thee to a lifetime of idleness in a distant corner of my diocese".  

    I mean, I don't think auxiliary of coadjutor bishops are ever mentioned in the una cuм.   Instead of all orthodox bishops in good health having their own flock to shepherd, they have coadjutor bishops who basically share their right to a diocese with another full bishop who pretends to just barely have more authority than he.  It almost seems like collegiality to me by proxy.  Because, the end is the same.  Collegiality is to infringe on the rights of another/other bishop, and to influence the happenings and infringe on the authority of a bishop in his own diocese.  Only the pope is to have that authority/ability.
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

    Offline poche

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council docuмents
    « Reply #43 on: May 31, 2018, 11:21:55 PM »
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  • I would not even read those docuмents if I were you, the danger here is they are designed to confuse and confound whoever reads the evil things. There are many places within those lying V2 docuмents where they falsely reference St. Thomas, Trent, V1, saints, Doctors and Fathers, etc,.

    It is only a matter of time, you will be defeated by the immense amount of nonsensical ambiguity offering multiple, meaningless meanings to nearly everything - but clarity usually surfaces, however  briefly, whenever there is a particular truth that they want to twist into a particular error.


     

      
    If you don't read the docuмents then how can you criticize them intelligently?

    Offline poche

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    Re: Reading the V2 Council docuмents
    « Reply #44 on: May 31, 2018, 11:26:18 PM »
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  • There was a section regarding auxiliary bishops.  And, I couldn't help but think about how it seems detrimental to have all of these degrees of bishops.  Has there within the church ever been criticism of having bishops like auxiliary for example probably functioning as nothing more than monsignors?  It seems like an injustice.  "Today I consecrate thee a bishop, and I sentence thee to a lifetime of idleness in a distant corner of my diocese".  

    I mean, I don't think auxiliary of coadjutor bishops are ever mentioned in the una cuм.   Instead of all orthodox bishops in good health having their own flock to shepherd, they have coadjutor bishops who basically share their right to a diocese with another full bishop who pretends to just barely have more authority than he.  It almost seems like collegiality to me by proxy.  Because, the end is the same.  Collegiality is to infringe on the rights of another/other bishop, and to influence the happenings and infringe on the authority of a bishop in his own diocese.  Only the pope is to have that authority/ability.
    The purpose of the auxiliary bishops is to assist the bishop in the running of his diocese. If the diocese is large and there is a large number of people, more than what one bishop can handle then the auxiliary bishop is there to help him, not sit in a corner with nothing to do. Canon law assigns them specific functions to perform in assistance to the bishop in question.