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Author Topic: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ  (Read 22322 times)

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Re: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ
« Reply #160 on: October 16, 2019, 11:09:48 PM »
Quote
St. Robert Bellarmine:
“A Pope who is a manifest heretic automatically ceases to be a Pope and head, just as he ceases automatically to be a Christian and a member of the Church. Wherefore, he can be judged and punished by the Church. This is the teaching of all the ancient Fathers who teach that manifest heretics immediately lose all jurisdiction.”


The same Robert Bellamine says:
‘Just as it is licit to resist the [Roman] pontiff who attacks the body, so also it is licit to resist him who attacks souls, or who disturbs civil order, or, above all, him who tries to destroy the Church.   I say that it is licit to resist him by not doing what he orders and by impeding the execution of his will;  it is not licit, however to judge him, to punish him, or to depose him for these are acts proper to a superior. (De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29)

Offline Mark 79

  • Supporter
Re: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ
« Reply #161 on: October 17, 2019, 09:35:21 AM »
Jorge jokes about Our Lord's Crucifixion


El Jesuita: Conversaciones con el cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, s.j. 
por Sergio Rubin y Francesca Ambrogetti con Prologo por Rabino Abraham Skorka


In the book, El Jesuita: Conversaciones con el cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, Jorge makes a joke about Our Lord's Crucifixion.  On pages 41 & 42 in Chapter 3 of the book translated from the Spanish to English one reads the following:
Quote
But the main emblem of Catholicism is a Crucified Christ dripping blood...

The exaltation of suffering in the Church depends heavily on the time and culture. The Church represents Christ in the cultural atmosphere of the time that one lived. Looking at the Eastern icons, the Russians, for example, it is found that there are few images of the crucified suffering. Rather it represents the resurrection. But if we look at the Spanish Baroque or Cuzco, we find the patience of Christ ripped away because the Baroque emphasized the passion of Jesus. The White Crucifixion, Chagall, who was a Jєωιѕн believer, is not cruel (but) it is hopeful. Pain is shown there calmly. I believe that it is one of the most beautiful things he painted. 

Quote
[NOTE THE FOLLOWING TEXT HAS BEEN EDITED OUT OF THE ENGLISH EDITION OF THE BOOK]

At this point, Bergoglio turns smiling, perhaps to ease the talk.

Can I tell a story that comes to mind, he asked?

Sure.

It is about a Jєωιѕн boy who thrown out of all schools for being unruly until another Jew recommends to the father a "good Catholic school." And it encourages him that, surely, there (they) are going to straighten (him out). The father takes the advice. Thus passes the first month and the boy is very well behaved, without warning (surprisingly). Nor has he behavior problems in the coming months. The father, won by curiosity, goes to the rector to know how he managed this transformation. “It was very simple," replied the priest. "On the first day I took him by the ear and said pointing to the crucifix, ‘That was a Jew like you, if you misbehave, you will end up the same.’ " 
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What would you say of one who shared the above with you?  Would it be safe to say the man who now claims to be the 'Vicar of Christ' sees the crucifixion as the punch line of a joke?  Or he doesn’t believe in the suffering Christ went through in His Passion for our sins?  The Catholic Church has an ancient law, first written of by Saint Prosper of Aquitaine (390AD–455AD), “lex orandi, lex credendi.”  This roughly translates as, “the law of prayer is the law of belief.”    So if the above are his beliefs what does this say about how he prays?  Are Jorge's outward behaviors signs which gives one hints as to how he prays and what he thinks?  Why is Jorge always equating Christ to modern day Jews?

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--- DOcuмENTATION ---



(página 41 en Capítulo 3 "lo estás imitando a Jesús” de  
 El Jesuita: Conversaciones con el cardinal Jorge Bergoglio)


 

(página 42 en Capítulo 3 "lo estás imitando a Jesús” de 
 El Jesuita: Conversaciones con el cardinal Jorge Bergoglio)






Pope Francis: Conversations with Jorge Bergoglio: His Life in His Own Words
by Sergio Rubin and Francesca Ambrogetti.



(page 26 in Chapter 3 'You Are Imitating Christ' of Pope Francis:
Conversations with Jorge Bergoglio: His Life in His Own Words)



(page 27 in Chapter 3 'You Are Imitating Christ' of Pope Francis:
Conversations with Jorge Bergoglio: His Life in His Own Words)


--- NOTES ---
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*The Spanish edition published in 2010 is titled,  El Jesuita: Conversaciones con el cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, s.j. por Sergio Rubin y Francesca Ambrogetti con Prologo por Rabino Abraham Skorka, which translates into English as, The Jesuit: Conversations with the Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio, S.J. by Sergio Rubin and Francesca Ambrogetti with prologue by Rabbi Abraham Skorka.

**An English language edition was published in 2013 as, Pope Francis: Conversations with Jorge Bergoglio: His Life in His Own Words, by Sergio Rubin and Francesca Ambrogetti.  Interestingly it has been edited and Jorge's joke was one of the editors' revisions.  Why have the editors at the Penguin Group covered for Francis?[/font][/size][/color]


Re: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ
« Reply #162 on: October 17, 2019, 04:09:04 PM »
Again, I ask: did he ever really believe in the crucifixion of Christ? Because that I sincerely doubt. Certainly he doesn't act as if he does.

Re: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ
« Reply #163 on: October 19, 2019, 07:32:24 AM »
At the risk of going through 11 pages of this nonsense, the bottom line is this.......We have no proof at all the man even said it. Other than the word of some old  senile, wackjob "journalist".

This is about as credible as the whole Ukrainian crap about Trump vomited out by the radical commie-democrat left in America.

It'a all bunch of  baloney. you all  might as well be reading the Enquirer or Star magazine for crying out lout.  ::)

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: Francis Denies Divinity of Christ
« Reply #164 on: October 19, 2019, 08:29:52 AM »
At the risk of going through 11 pages of this nonsense, the bottom line is this.......We have no proof at all the man even said it. Other than the word of some old  senile, wackjob "journalist".

This is about as credible as the whole Ukrainian crap about Trump vomited out by the radical commie-democrat left in America.

It'a all bunch of  baloney. you all  might as well be reading the Enquirer or Star magazine for crying out lout.  ::)

No, given what we know about Bergoglio, this is indeed credible.  Whether or not it's actually true is a different story.  There's a huge scandal in the Vatican's very weekly-worded so-called denial as well.  Bergoglio needed to come out with a strong profession of his belief in the divinity of Christ to put this to bed, but he did not.  That alone is grave scandal that he did not put this to rest but leaves it floating around out there.  That's nearly as bad as having said it in the first place.  Despite the fact that this is not proof of anything, your angry denials are equally without foundation.  You have no more proof that he did not say these things than Scalfari does that he did.