Author Topic: N.O. Mass Has No Correlation With Loss of Faith (Read 4474 times)

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #60 on:** April 20, 2010, 11:36:35 AM »

stevus,

Have you ever read PH Omlor's comments/articles about the all-English Canon of 1967 (which also became applicable to the NOM post-1969)?

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #61 on:** April 20, 2010, 11:38:28 AM »

Here is another talking point we need to address...

Quote

Excepting the fact that the Church in Europe was in full hemorrhage before Vatican II was convened

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #62 on:** April 20, 2010, 11:39:06 AM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

stevus,

Have you ever read PH Omlor's comments/articles about the all-English Canon of 1967 (which also became applicable to the NOM post-1969)?

No. Will it help in this debate?

Caminus · « **Reply #63 on:** April 20, 2010, 11:46:35 AM »

Quote from: stevusmagnus

Here is another talking point we need to address...

Quote
Excepting the fact that the Church in Europe was in full hemorrhage before Vatican II was convened

What precisely does he mean by "full hemorrhage"?

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #64 on:** April 20, 2010, 11:47:10 AM »

Oh geez..

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Actually, there's no evidence whatsoever that Archbishop Bugnini ever said anything like, "We must strip from our prayers anything that is Catholic." You can try to find proof of this, but you won't succeed. It's always attributed to some article in L'Osservatore Romano, but the text of the article, context of the quotation, or (gasp) a scan of the article is never provided. If you can find any proof that this quotation is genuine, I'd love to see it.

Same with the Lutheran quote, for that matter.

Caminus · « **Reply #65 on:** April 20, 2010, 11:49:00 AM »

Yes, it's pretty damning isn't it?

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #66 on:** April 20, 2010, 11:59:28 AM »

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If you cannot cite anything in the missal that is protestant then please just say so. Insinuation is hardly credible evidence.

I've given you myriads of examples and made our position clear and you've given no substantive response. You merely repeat an already answered question that has no relevance to our position and is a strawman/ red herring.

What is Protestant about the NO us the fact that explicitly Catholic prayers regarding the propitiatory sacrifice were deliberately omitted to appease Protestants. Other changes and omissions were made with this in mind as clear quotations from Bugnini himself and the Protestant ministers show.

The real question to ask is what in the Novus Ordo Mass is explicitly and unambiguously Catholic that Protestants will not accept.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #67 on:** April 20, 2010, 12:03:22 PM »

Quote

Someone here once posted that what is referred to as this quote from Archbishop Bugnini is actually a very rough and inaccurate translation of what he said. The "key" words were translated in a way as to make them appear much more extraordinary than they really were. You are right, though, that it is always the same unverified quote used over and over.

Alexandria · « **Reply #68 on:** April 20, 2010, 12:05:08 PM »

The greatest indictment against the novus ordo are the posters themselves. But you will never get them to realize it because that's all they know.

Has anyone figured out why they are so defensive and why they feel the absolute need to defend (at any and all cost, including reason and sanity) every jot and tittle of the horrid VII docuмents and the ensuing decades of ecclesial horror? They remind me of many of the modern day parents who will never admit that their child is anything other than perfect.

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #69 on:** April 20, 2010, 12:08:42 PM »

Oh geez

http://rubricsandritual.blogspot.com/2008/04/wdbrs.html

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #70 on:** April 20, 2010, 01:50:23 PM »

Click here to follow along

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?p=6549547#post6549547