All because of little old me!  :cool:

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3423071.0.html

Substance aside, if anyone wants an example of why Quis makes for an unproductive mod, please read the thread. Can we imagine Matthew acting this way? Indeed, I forget sometimes how fortunate we are to be able to post freely here.

It seems my article on Neo-Traditionalism hit a nerve with some Fishies, Quis in particular.

Here is the article: http://church-in-crisis.com/?p=33

Nevertheless, I was indeed pleased that some Fishies in the thread saw the truth in my analysis in whole or at least in part.  It goes to show that some there still have the light of Catholicism burning somewhere in their hearts, through the darkness of the forum they post on.

My term "Neo-Traditionalist" encompasses a lot of Fishies, true, but is in no way limited to them. One can find plenty of Neo-Trads outside the confines of FE. And an increasing minority of posters on FE still hold to the truth.

One question I can't help but ask is if Quis believes living with an online flame while both are married to other people, one with children, is Catholic? He previously told me that as long as your priest approves it, it is. I'm wondering where this is found in Catholic Tradition? Maybe he can enlighten his posters....

And this simply goes to the larger point that he and others do not understand. A close read of my article spells it out clearly. Neo-Trads are really liberals who, for various reasons, attend the TLM. Quis' justifying his public marital situation is, at its essence, no different than liberals justifying shacking up and all sorts of other moral iniquities. It seems they think if you attend a TLM, or if some priest gives you permission, one is free to violate the moral law. It is a sort of Cafeteria Catholicism. "I'll take my TLM and condescension towards Neo-Caths, but hold the Traditional morality please."

I've said many times on this board and elsewhere that there are many Catholics on Catholic Answers (who Quis has no problem calling "Neo-Caths") who have a lot more of a Catholic sense than the Neo-Traditionalists. For instance, 99% of posters on CA recognize that the FE owners' scandal is not Catholic. But somehow this concept is justified to the Neo-Trad mind.

I'm not sure if some of the posters did not bother to read my article or misunderstood it, however, the bottom line is that simply attending the TLM does not make one "Traditional". In the same way many Traditionalists take different stances on whether to attend the most reverent NO available if there is no TLM available to fulfill ones Sunday obligation or for other serious reasons. A Society priest even told me that the decision is up to the individual conscience though their stance is that one should not attend the NO in this situation.

Ironically there are many Traditional Catholics in areas without a TLM, who attend the NO out of obedience who would qualify as much more Traditional than the Neo-Trad. For instance they would be horrified at the Neo-Trad ideas that souls could be plucked out of Hell by God (thus Hell is not eternal), that the TLM should include certain NO innovations, heavy metal is morally acceptable for Catholics to listen to, etc.

As is typical of Neo-Trads, their response to critique is to focus on the critiquer instead of the critique. Thus the debate becomes a referendum on the individual instead of substance. However, it fools no one of intelligence.

When one couples a guilty Neo-Traditional conscience with any sort of authority, however fictitious or "virtual" we see the danger that ensues.

Any poster who sticks up for true Catholic Tradition, especially in the area of morality, is hounded, pressed, threatened into submission. The Neo-Trad cannot bear to hear the truth because it convicts him. As long as he can shut it out, through locking threads, shutting down subforums, ending debates, he can stall the furies for a little while. But sooner or later the hound of heaven returns, inviting the poor soul to repentance, meekness, and recognition of their error. I only pray one day that all Neo-Trads finally take the only course that will lead to peace.

The devil would much rather have a soul busy irately managing a message board than straightening out one's own spiritual life so that one's effort would bear fruit.

I ask for your prayers of conversion for the FE owners as well as all Neo-Traditionalists wherever they may be found.

Ban discussion of theological topics? What would make it a Catholic forum then?

What makes it a Catholic forum now?

I am never going to understand Fisheater's infatuation with "death metal" and "rock-n-roll". Apart from being a horrible excuse for music, its anti-Catholic and often Satanic.

Neo-Tradition is a mixture of the world and Traditional Catholicism. Have your cake and eat it too. Attend the TLM, and then listen to some Anthrax. Neo-Tradition, like liberalism, is a mental disorder. A sort of brain fog that can't recognize the holy is incompatible with the profane. They remind me of the VCII innovators trying to reconcile Catholicism with the anti-Catholic world.

Amen Gladius. On this we can agree 100%.

Quote from: Vladimir

Ban discussion of theological topics? What would make it a Catholic forum then?

What makes it a Catholic forum now?

Quote

I am never going to understand Fisheater's infatuation with "death metal" and "rock-n-roll". Apart from being a horrible excuse for music, its anti-Catholic and often Satanic.

Neo-Tradition is a mixture of the world and Traditional Catholicism. Have your cake and eat it too. Attend the TLM, and then listen to some Anthrax. Neo-Tradition, like liberalism, is a mental disorder. A sort of brain fog that can't recognize the holy is incompatible with the profane. They remind me of the VCII innovators trying to reconcile Catholicism with the anti-Catholic world.

It's part of the Hegelian dialectic:

Catholicism (thesis)
Modern world (antithesis)
Vatican II (synthesis)

then, we have
Catholicism, traditional (thesis)
Vatican II Catholicism (antithesis)
Neo-traditionalism (synthesis)

It's just another step.

Matthew,

Also came across this gem where Quis feels the need to "psychoanalyze" me a second time. The irony here needs no explanation.

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3385485.msg32835295.html#msg32835295

It's filled with factual inaccuracies, but that is beside the point and expected.

The question I have is what this says about Quis' insight into his own current spiritual condition and whether or not you think he is truly losing touch with reality?

It seems he is engrossed in a sort of megalomania derived from having absolute authority over his fictitious world. He has almost become a sort of god in his own mind.

Without divine guidance, I fear for his direction.

"Nice."

So he's a martyr now, just humbly following in the footsteps of his Master. His enemies can't be reasoned with, because they aren't reasonable, being possessed by hate as they are.

That is NOT fair.


To answer your question, Stevus --
Yes, I believe Catholics who go astray because of the flesh tend to lose touch with reality more and more. I know at least 2 of them personally. They do things that leave you scratching your head, thinking "HOW can they justify that? Weren't they taught clearly that it's wrong?" Usually they are extremely unhappy.

And yes, the temptation to "wield power" is very great. It takes constant vigilance. Even though it's just a small, insignificant web forum, you can still get into it, the same way a kid "gets into" a video game virtual world. In that world, he's super leveled-up powerful, even though it's all just a few bits on a computer somewhere. Once he turns off the Playstation he's nobody, but in that world he's super powerful. I've played RPGs (Role Playing Games) in the past, and I'll tell you that it's possible to immerse yourself in an imaginary world -- especially if you're a deep thinker/imaginative type.


Back to the fallen Catholic discussion --
Just like the characters we read about in World History, a person CAN be apostate or completely in mortal sin, and still be in possession of his main faculties (intellect, memory, reason, etc.), though his judgment of right and wrong gets increasingly clouded -- and his sensitivity to the gravity of sin dulls considerably.

Some will craft elaborate excuses and reasons to explain their current behavior. Some, being quite intelligent, do a pretty decent job at this!

In fact, Chesterton (in his book "Orthodoxy") talks about how it's the man of REASON who loses touch with reality and goes "mad" -- not the poet or artistic type.

Just read the missives of "Pope Augustine" -- the layman who still has a day job but considers himself pope (he said he's found the Great Monarch, and yesterday he said he's going to canonize Christopher Columbus.) The man clearly has some natural intelligence -- but he's gone off into his own world -- he's completely mad.

Matthew

http://catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3423856.0.html
I'm going to stop the nauseous task of actually looking at a few of these threads as they are beginning to serve as a near occasion of sin due to the anti-Catholic content.

Truly a sad lot. The site is basically a gathering of socially challenged Neo-Trads exchanging juvenile & immodest humor and leading people into error. What a complete waste of time and an evil.

That's one of the reasons I started CathInfo -- to provide an alternative.

Everyone who joins CathInfo, posts something edifying, spreads the word about CathInfo, etc. does something to help improve the Catholic world a little bit. We all do our part. It all adds up.

Matthew

That's one of the reasons I started CathInfo -- to provide an alternative.

Everyone who joins CathInfo, posts something edifying, spreads the word about CathInfo, etc. does something to help improve the Catholic world a little bit. We all do our part. It all adds up.

Matthew

Amen Matthew. The sin and evil on FE is almost tangible. You just feel dirty even reading the inanity there. I'd love to say I expected it, but it really does wound me as a Catholic that the posters there take the owners' public sin so lightly.

In addition, Quis and other posters are still calumniating me months after my exit. An obsession of sorts. I still get to them even in my absence. It is really not so much me but the conviction of the Holy Spirit as all I did was repeat Catholic teaching while there. If all I did was attack people unprovoked I would have been long forgotten there.

As you remember, back when they first came out with the news a lot of the posters there fraternally corrected the mods. There was outrage on the site. Holy outrage against scandal. And they were all slowly purged. There are now nothing but "yes" men there. Those who are outraged are too scared to speak for fear of banning/ being piled up on.

To those FE who are lurking, I urge you to do what is right as Spouse did, publicly condemn the scandal, delete your account there and post on a board that will be edifying to your faith and not a hindrance to it.

Certain posters on the FE board, as liberals do, actually argued that it doesn't matter what the owners do in their personal lives. That is separate from the Forum. Unbelievable. this is the same argument as Bill Clinton's supporters made. As I said, so many of these people are liberals, it is sad.

It is not like the owners are repentant reformed public sinners.  They justify what they did, claim there is no sin or scandal, and attack those who are justly outraged. Sadly there is no insight there.

Instead of quoting Malachi Martin, Quis should read this article to perhaps get some insight into the mindset of those who are trying to help him by admonishing his sin.


http://www.touchstonemag.com/archives/article.php?id=22-06-012-v