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Author Topic: Questions regarding the matter of baptism  (Read 1136 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Questions regarding the matter of baptism
« on: November 16, 2023, 06:16:12 AM »
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  • From what I understand the sacrament of baptism requires pure/true(real?) and 'natural' water. What exactly does this entail? Here in Australia most of our drinking water is recycled so it's gone through a lot of processes and has been heavily treated. What about water made from a machine?

    Does 'natural' water simply refer to H20 in order to differentiate from other liquids that might be mistaken as water? Does these things mentioned above invalidate the matter?

    Quote
    Pope Eugene IV "Exultate Deo", Council of Florence

    "Holy baptism holds the first place among all the sacraments, for it is the gate of the spiritual life; through it we become members of Christ and of the body of the church. Since death came into the world through one person, unless we are born again of water and the spirit, we cannot, as Truth says, enter the kingdom of heaven. The matter of this sacrament is true and natural water, either hot or cold."
    Also hot or cold? What about lukewarm?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Questions regarding the matter of baptism
    « Reply #1 on: November 16, 2023, 08:13:51 AM »
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  • It's always been defined as that which appears to the normal human senses as water, and a certain amount of chemicals on the water, such as fluoride do not change its essence as water.  You could have various chemicals in certain spring water, etc.  So, the more "stuff" water has in it and the less it resembles water (to human senses), the less probable is its validity.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Questions regarding the matter of baptism
    « Reply #2 on: November 16, 2023, 08:22:38 AM »
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  • Also hot or cold? What about lukewarm?

    When he says hot or cold, he means that the temperature doesn't matter, i.e. hot or cold or anywhere in between.  Of course, you couldn't use ice unless you could get some of it to melt, since you can't exactly "wash" with ice.

    Offline Yeti

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    Re: Questions regarding the matter of baptism
    « Reply #3 on: November 16, 2023, 01:38:30 PM »
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  • I have always wondered what the expression "natural water" means, but I think it's to distinguish water from things that are very similar but which people don't normally consider water, such as tea, hydrogen peroxide, and so on.

    Offline Marulus Fidelis

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    Re: Questions regarding the matter of baptism
    « Reply #4 on: November 16, 2023, 04:05:48 PM »
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  • Maybe if you don't have water at hand you can wish really hard upon a jar of honey and make it water of desire. Seriously, have you guys forgotten that God is not bound by the sacraments? You can use whatever! As if God would deprive someone of salvation just because you baptized them with beer or milk...



    /s


    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: Questions regarding the matter of baptism
    « Reply #5 on: November 16, 2023, 04:38:13 PM »
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  • Maybe if you don't have water at hand you can wish really hard upon a jar of honey and make it water of desire. Seriously, have you guys forgotten that God is not bound by the sacraments? You can use whatever! As if God would deprive someone of salvation just because you baptized them with beer or milk...



    /s

    :fryingpan:

    The matter of your baptism must have been vodka or whisky. Beer is way too weak for this kind of nonsense. :trollface:

    Offline trad123

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    Re: Questions regarding the matter of baptism
    « Reply #6 on: November 16, 2023, 04:45:02 PM »
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  • /s



    You would of probably been better off using that as Bulletin Board Code tags, and without abbreviation.
    2 Corinthians 4:3-4 

    And if our gospel be also hid, it is hid to them that are lost, In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should not shine unto them.

    Offline Nadir

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    Re: Questions regarding the matter of baptism
    « Reply #7 on: November 16, 2023, 06:23:46 PM »
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  • Collect rain! Filter it if you must! 
    Help of Christians, guard our land from assault or inward stain,
    Let it be what God has planned, His new Eden where You reign.

    +RIP 2024


    Offline Cryptinox

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    Re: Questions regarding the matter of baptism
    « Reply #8 on: November 17, 2023, 01:06:11 PM »
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  • I'd agree that it is something the most would perceive as water. Chrism was traditionally added to baptismal water and baptisms with said water are undoubtedly valid.
    I recant many opinions on the crisis in the Church and moral theology that I have espoused on here from at least 2019-2021 don't take my postings from that time as well as 2022 possibly too seriously.