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Author Topic: Questions I would like SOMEONE to answer  (Read 5273 times)

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Offline Trinity

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Questions I would like SOMEONE to answer
« on: January 24, 2012, 09:13:10 AM »
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  • I'm not malarking about here and I don't think these are inconsequential so would someone please answer me?

    Explain in what way "using the sacraments as weapons" differs from refusing the sacraments to unbelievers which the Church has always done.

    If the tradational Church is a swampland, and it well may be, what can we do to clean it up?
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.


    Offline stevusmagnus

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    Questions I would like SOMEONE to answer
    « Reply #1 on: January 24, 2012, 10:03:20 AM »
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  • If one is a dogmatic sede, wouldn't it make sense for them to deny communion to those who recognize and follow someone who, in their views, is an anti-pope?

    Similarly, I would assume those priests who hold sede-ism as a mere opinion, wouldn't be in a position to deny communion to one who recognized BXVI as he admits he could be wrong.


    Offline Trinity

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    « Reply #2 on: January 24, 2012, 10:05:09 AM »
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  • Correct me if I'm wrong SM, but are you saying it is no different?
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline stevusmagnus

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    « Reply #3 on: January 24, 2012, 10:07:15 AM »
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  • Well, I'm not certain what "using sacraments as weapons" means. If the denial of communion is used as a way to stigmatize certain individuals one doesn't like in the congregation, that would be evil. If the priest is a dogmatic sede and denies all sedeplentists communion, he would at least be consistent.

    Offline Trinity

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    « Reply #4 on: January 24, 2012, 10:30:17 AM »
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  • How would one know?
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.


    Offline Thorn

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    « Reply #5 on: January 24, 2012, 10:34:38 AM »
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  • Trinity, I'm no expert, by far, but I will try to answer your question as honestly as I can.
    'Using the sacraments as weapons' IS quite different from refusing the sacraments to unbelievers.  First off I want to state that I believe that there are priests who do use the sacraments as weapons & I'm not going to state specific examples.  Secondly, sedevacantism is only a personal opinion & not a doctrine of the faith.  Some of us believe in it, some do not, just as Fatima & Lourdes are not doctrines & some of us believe in such apparitions & some do not & no one can or should question us about them.  Therefore none of these things should be a basis for whether we may receive the sacraments.  Priests who do are usurping the authority of the Pope.  This is splintering Catholics & should NOT be happening.  We pray for unity at Mass & then go out & divide into groups - for or against sedevacantism!!  This is utter nonsense & needs to stop.
    Refusing the sacraments to unbelievers is quite different as you now see because an unbeliever is denying a doctrine of the faith & only those who believe can participate in any sacraments.

    Your second question is a little harder to answer & I'm at a loss to answer except to say that we need to be more vigilant & not accept people at face value.  There's a lot of fakes out there & they flourish because many Catholics are naive & too trusting when they see or talk to someone who SEEMS pious & knowing.  Just remember - an actor can go thro the actions of a Mass & just because someone does the Mass perfectly or someone can appear pious & knowledgeable, doesn't necessarily mean that they are 'for real'.  

    I guess the only thing I can offer is to be on guard & come to the realization that we can't take on the whole problem - we only need to strive very hard to get ourselves & family to heaven.    
    "I will lead her into solitude and there I will speak to her heart.  Osee 2:14

    Offline MyrnaM

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    « Reply #6 on: January 24, 2012, 10:38:30 AM »
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  • I was taught that no priest can deny the sacraments from anyone, unless they know for certain that the person asking is a known un-Catholic.

    Reason being, even a priest can not judge the soul of a person.  

    Prior to Vatican II, a Catholic can travel from one place to another, attend Mass, and know for sure if they walk up to the Communion rail they will be offered the Blessed Sacrament.  

    Another reason to refuse the sacraments today, might be, if a person came to the communion rail with total disrespect, with some odd behavior, or immodest dress, acting as if they do not know what they are doing or it is  obvious to the priest that they do not believe but only want to mock the sacrament.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline SJB

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    « Reply #7 on: January 24, 2012, 10:39:20 AM »
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  • This might help:

    Quote from: Woywod, Commentary
    Article II. The Recipient of Holy Communion.

    696. Every baptized person not barred by law can and must be admitted to holy Communion. (Canon 853.)

    698. Notoriously unworthy Catholics, such as those excommunicated, interdicted, and of public bad repute, must not be admitted to holy Communion until after their repentance and amendment is known, and satisfaction has been made for public scandal. Occult sinners who secretly ask for holy Communion should be refused by the priest if he knows that they have not amended; if, however, they ask publicly and the priest cannot pass them over without scandal, he may give them holy Communion. (Canon 855.)
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil


    Offline Trinity

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    « Reply #8 on: January 24, 2012, 11:05:00 AM »
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  • So it all depends on the priest's motives, Correct?
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

    Offline SJB

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    « Reply #9 on: January 24, 2012, 11:38:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: Trinity
    So it all depends on the priest's motives, Correct?


    Where do you get that? Please read the above from a well-known and respected commentary on Canon Law. It seems that the refusal of the sacraments is quite limited by the Church. The faithful have a right to the Sacraments. The priest has a duty to provide them to those who ask and are not barred by law, "excommunicated, interdicted, and of public bad repute."



    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Trinity

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    « Reply #10 on: January 24, 2012, 11:42:19 AM »
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  • Because it is the priest who decides who is barred and who is not.
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.


    Offline SJB

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    « Reply #11 on: January 24, 2012, 12:09:23 PM »
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  • Quote from: Trinity
    Because it is the priest who decides who is barred and who is not.


    Except he must base his decision on what the Church instructs.

    696. Every baptized person not barred by law can and must be admitted to holy Communion. (Canon 853.)
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline roscoe

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    « Reply #12 on: January 24, 2012, 12:27:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    I was taught that no priest can deny the sacraments from anyone, unless they know for certain that the person asking is a known un-Catholic.

    Reason being, even a priest can not judge the soul of a person.  


    I have never heard of a 'known un-catholic'[( whatever that means) who would solicit the Sacraments in the first place.

    A priest can indeed judge the soul of a person-- this is known as confession.

    It is for good reason that females are proscribed from meddling in theological matters.

    There Is No Such Thing As 'Sede Vacantism'...
    nor is there such thing as a 'Feeneyite' or 'Feeneyism'

    Offline MyrnaM

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    « Reply #13 on: January 24, 2012, 12:37:52 PM »
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  • roscoe, known un-Catholic means that the priest knows a particular person at the communion rail is indeed a non-Catholic.  President Clinton a non-Catholic received "communion" in the novus ordo church, sorry you missed that piece of news.  

    A priest can not judge the soul of a person when he is at the communion rail, because a person can be in the state of grace after confession, and it could be that a person who just walked out of the confessional might not be in the state of grace.  A priest must assume that every person who goes to receive communion is worthy.  He can not judge at the communion rail because receiving the Eucharist and going to Confession are two different sacraments.  
    Please pray for my soul.
    R.I.P. 8/17/22

    My new blog @ https://myforever.blog/blog/

    Offline Trinity

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    « Reply #14 on: January 24, 2012, 01:48:37 PM »
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  • Roscoe I do wish you would dither elsewhere.  I'm serious about this and it is a serious subject, not here to give a vehicle to your hobby.  

    So far I have been assured that this is true and that half a congregation left, which points to some bad behavior.  If this IS true then the priest is guilty of abuse of office and that is a very grave accusation for sure.  But tell me, in the NO is the pope  question a matter of opinion or of dogma?
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.