Do you believe that men in the Novus Ordo church can be saved? Or are they outside the Church, and consequently on the way to damnation?

I'm asking in particular about Novus Ordo-ites in countries where the Latin Mass is unavailable, etc (NOT the US and Europe).

In particular, I'm referring to men and women that pray the Rosary daily, attend Holy Mass as often as possible, firmly believe in the Real Presence -- in short, they act almost exactly the same as traditional Catholics, but they don't have the Latin Mass (through no fault of their own).

Please elaborate on your answer(s).

Thank you.

(PS -- don't think that I'm going soft on the Novus Ordo, this question just came to mind as I am currently in a country where to my knowledge the Latin Mass has not been offered since VII and knowledge of it is simply the obscure, phantasmagorial vestiges of the past...I was praying the Rosary inside a Novus Ordo church during the afternoon, and there seemed to be quite a few "regulars" - mainly elderly women praying the Rosary and other various devotions)

EDIT: Actually, I should probably expand this question to all traditionalists.

I should have specified, I don't live here -- I am just spending the summer.

That was very enlightening. I really want to obtain a copy of that book. Anne Catherine Emmerich also prophesied that around the time that VII occured that there would be a crisis in the Church.

I checked Ebay and Amazon and there are none, but I did find this link that sells the book

http://tinyurl.com/2flb7za

Although its out of stock, you can find it online I believe or wait.  

not sure if you want to pay that much, you might want to check around for a used set too.

While your here for the summer, are you near any CMRI chapels?  

Yves Dupont's Catholic Prophecy has a lot in it that fits our time perfectly.  He has a lot of Anna Catherine Emmerich's prophecies as well.  And the book is a lot less money.

I was a fallen Catholic for quite a few years, when I returned in 1990 I hardly knew where I was. I wanted to return to the church as I was recovering from alcoholism and cancer. I knew something was not right. It is strange if you don't search for answers you will not find any among the NO'ers.
I am so glad to be at a traditional Mass.  I have told others about it but seem to ignore me. I think its like SpiritusSantus says. They would have to change their lifestye. I even talked to a nun who said she would not want to go back to the old way.
And I do believe that God will hear those who do not know there is the real Mass if their heart is in the right place.

Quote from: tradcath72

I was a fallen Catholic for quite a few years, when I returned in 1990 I hardly knew where I was. I wanted to return to the church as I was recovering from alcoholism and cancer. I knew something was not right. It is strange if you don't search for answers you will not find any among the NO'ers.
I am so glad to be at a traditional Mass.  I have told others about it but seem to ignore me. I think its like SpiritusSantus says. They would have to change their lifestye. I even talked to a nun who said she would not want to go back to the old way.
And I do believe that God will hear those who do not know there is the real Mass if their heart is in the right place.

I have seen people leave the Novus Ordo in droves back after the mass changed in the late 60's.  They continued to leave throughout the years.  Many of them had a strong devotion to Our Lady, and  that led them to the truth of what was going on.    Over the years,  there have been less and less.  Many Catholics just fell away from the faith or joined protestant sects.  Ive even see younger people whos parents have raised them traditional go back to the Novus Ordo church (which they were never raised with) and worse yet some have become protestants.  There is a continual war for souls!The ones who are stunch Novus Ordo, love it, and very slim chance they will leave!  They love the freedom to get married again, practice birth control and other reasons.  St Paul says they have "itching ears" and will not endure the sound doctrine.

Yeah, the Novus Ordo is the primary reason so many people have left the Catholic Church since Vatican II. Not only did Satan manage to reduce to TLM to a remnant, he managed to reduce the number of Catholics as well.

I have a theory, just my theory and perfectly useless, that only those who sense something is wrong in the Novus Ordo can be saved.  I gain support for this from a passage in Ezekiel as follows -- a very strange passage --

"And the glory of the Lord of Israel went up from the cherub, upon which he was, to the threshold of the house: and he called to the man that was clothed with linen, and had a writer's inkhorn at his loins.

And the Lord said to him: Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem: and mark Thau upon the foreheads of the men that sigh, and mourn for all the abominations that are committed in the midst thereof.

And to the others he said in my hearing: Go ye after him through the city, and strike: let not your eyes spare, nor be ye moved with pity.

Utterly destroy old and young, maidens, children and women: but upon whomsoever you shall see Thau, kill him not, and begin ye at my sanctuary. So they began at the ancient men who were before the house.

And he said to them: Defile the house, and ill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew them that were in the city.

And the slaughter being ended I was left: and I fell upon my face, and crying, I said: Alas, alas, alas, O Lord God, wilt thou then destroy all the remnant of Israel, by pouring out thy fury upon Jerusalem?

And he said to me: The iniquity of the house of Israel, and of Juda, is exceeding great, and the land is filled with blood, and the city is filled with perverseness: for they have said: The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.

Therefore neither shall my eye spare, nor will I have pity: I will requite their way upon their head."

I think this may be describing the Minor Chastisement.  Those who "sigh" for the abomination being committed are marked with a sign and spared; everyone else is eliminated with righteous fury.  Then again, this could be about the actual end of time.

The problem is that, if I'm right, this passage raises questions about my sedevacantist position, since it refers to what I'd guess is Rome ( Jerusalem ) -- though notably fallen and corrupt -- as "my sanctuary."  I prefer to think of that as prophetic shorthand.  Obviously the prophecy could not explain the intricacies of the current situation in detail, but Rome the City, despite the tainted Magisterium of Rome the Church, still represents God's sanctuary.

Novus Ordo Catholics can believe in the Real Presence, in the Catholic Church, and in all the things that Catholics should believe in, but I think despite all that it is still possible to have a spirit that is repulsive and alien to God.  There have been tons of Catholics throughout history, when the Church ruled the world, who believed all that they had to believe catechetically, but that doesn't mean they'll all be saved.

Basically what people are saying is that the Novus Ordo Catholics are like Protestants who believe in the Real Presence -- and that that one element is enough to save them.  I don't know.  I think a lot of Novus Ordo Catholics, despite their belief in the central tenets of the faith, are strongly Judaized and that this alone will render them alien to God.  A lot of traditional Catholics are Judaized too, and I feel the prognosis for them is about as bleak.  Is it really just enough to say "Jesus, Jesus" and ignore everything that is going on around you, to ignore the significance of the separation of Church and state, of Israel, of the evil media, of the infiltration of the Church?  I think Jesus Himself gave the answer to that -- you can't just say His name, you have to do His will.  I strongly doubt His will is for people to stick their heads in the sand and say "Hey, I just want to be a Catholic, I don't know anything about that stuff."

If I were God ( keep in mind I'm not, I know it's hard to tell the difference -- sarcasm ), it would depend on how much each Novus Ordo Catholic knew and how they reacted to that knowledge.  I would not punish some ignorant Mexican maid for enjoying herself too much at a Mariachi Mass.  I'd give her a low place in heaven fit for her where she would be happy in her way, which is good enough.  But some of these neo-con Jєω-worshipping Novus Ordo Catholics would not make it into my heaven.  Not even at the lowest levels. They don't care about what is happening in society; they are not doing God's will, they just pay Him homage on weekends.  

My belief is that there is a lot of worship of self going on in the guise of worship to God.  That some of these people, Real Presence or not, would be just as happy at an agape church or Protestant church, and they just picked the Catholic Church for some personal reason, like maybe their mother was Catholic.

The saints have talked about how narrow the way to salvation is even in times when the Church was functioning at a relatively high level.  How much worse will it be in a time like this?  I try to be a passionate Catholic and I honestly doubt that I will be saved -- I don't despair, but I definitely tremble for my salvation -- yet so many of these Novus Ordo types are SURE that they will be.  They don't even think twice about it.  Again, it is very, very redolent of Protestantism -- just believe, and you're in good shape, or so they think.  I find many of them spiritually unrecognizable, not my kindred spirits, but again, I'm not God.  It's possible He sees something in their hearts that I don't.