Author Topic: Question for Myrna  (Read 6677 times)

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Offline MaterDominici

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Question for Myrna
« on: July 29, 2010, 08:23:10 PM »
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  • Quote from: Myrna
    ...but one of them is novus ordo and won’t be able to receive Holy Communion, which might cause hurt feelings within that family.


    Why do you / your priest blanketly refuse communion to NO family members? What's the basis without presuming anything about the individual?
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Question for Myrna
    « Reply #1 on: July 29, 2010, 09:02:00 PM »
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  • CMRI only refuses Communion to those that they know to be NOT-Catholic.    CMRI, does not recognize novus ordo as Catholic but a new religion. Which is why I say many times how can a pope be leader of a true and false religion?

    This particular grandchild of mine, was baptized Catholic, in fact at the Mount, but her mother who does not practice, puts her into the novus ordo school because it is just a few blocks from her home.  My son, the girls father is a weak Catholic, and would perfer her to go to the Mount, but the mother-in-law has, (wife's mother) great influence on them, also not a practicing Catholic.   (sigh)

    The little girl whom I question, although attends a novus ordo Catholic school, does not know what sanctifying grace is, does not know the difference between mortal and venial sin.
    She does not know what Purgatory is, till we told her. She doesn't even know her purpose in life; to Know, Love and Serve God in this life so you can be happy with Him for all eternity in the next life.  She is not taught the marian standards of modesty and the school uniform reflects that, and the list goes on and on.  She doesn't know these things because the catholic school does not teach them, they sin by omission.

    My son told me, at her "first communion", the children, some of them walked to receive in their hands, while chewing gum, his words, "mom, it was a joke"

    I am working on all of the above, but believe me it is a chore, because when she goes back to her other grandmother, that grandmother tells her differently.  

    Sometime I am allowed to take her to Mass with me, and I explain to her, that although she is a member of the Traditional Catholic church, (Baptised there)  it is better for her to wait till she learns all her catechism before she can receive Holy Communion.  Might be when she grows up, and will not be influenced by her other grandmother.  With prayers, and invoking promise in honor of  St. Gertrude the Great I have confidence but till then, we wait for God's perfect timing.  

    Sorry, Mater, I always assumed everyone knew that SV does not accept novus ordo as being Catholic.  They for the most part do not have the Faith.  The Faith is what makes you Catholic.  Many too, there had the Faith but lost it, many there may still have the Faith, who am I to say, through the rosary and scapular.
    CMRI, does not accept their sacraments, mass service, or priesthood as being valid, but no more than an Anglican ordination at best.  

    Please don't think I am not trying my best to teach her, but I don't have her as much as the other grandmother has.  She finally learned from me, her purpose in life.  


    Offline SJB

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    Question for Myrna
    « Reply #2 on: July 29, 2010, 09:13:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    Sorry, Mater, I always assumed everyone knew that SV does not accept novus ordo as being Catholic.


    Do they require a  formal abjuration of error from "novus ordo" converts?  I have never heard of any priest requiring  an abjuration of error in this type of situation.
    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Question for Myrna
    « Reply #3 on: July 29, 2010, 09:40:29 PM »
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  • I don't know about that, SJB.

    Offline PartyIsOver221

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    Question for Myrna
    « Reply #4 on: July 29, 2010, 11:17:47 PM »
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  •  :applause:

    Ooh I like this Myrna.... she's got some teeth now!  Making up for lack of Raoul on this forum.


    Offline MaterDominici

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    Question for Myrna
    « Reply #5 on: July 29, 2010, 11:33:14 PM »
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  • Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: MyrnaM
    Sorry, Mater, I always assumed everyone knew that SV does not accept novus ordo as being Catholic.


    Do they require a  formal abjuration of error from "novus ordo" converts?  I have never heard of any priest requiring  an abjuration of error in this type of situation.


    Seems to me all they would require would be confession with a Trad priest as they'd presume any prior confession would have been invalid.

    But, for all I know, they require catechism and conditional baptism from all "NO converts".

    Myrna, we can speak conceptually all day about what the CMRI thinks of the Novus Ordo, but reality in how they deal with "NO converts" might still come as a surprise. If they really treat them like Protestants when they walk in the door, I wouldn't be surprised if many of them walked right back out.
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...

    Offline Matthew

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    Question for Myrna
    « Reply #6 on: July 30, 2010, 12:02:21 AM »
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  • Myrna, I'm sorry that your novus ordo granddaughter is so ignorant of the Catholic Faith and morals.

    However, that is not the case with every novus ordo-attending Catholic.

    As YOU know, I don't believe that everyone in the novus ordo has lost the Faith.

    When a huge torpedo hits a battleship, YES some people die instantly, but others are maimed, critically wounded, seriously wounded -- even lightly wounded or completely unscathed!

    That's a good analogy for the novus ordo. It's like staying on a battleship under attack by an enemy ship. You're taking your life (Faith) into your hands. People getting wounded and dying all around you, and the more time goes on the higher the casualty list.

    No joke, I've met people in the novus ordo who were quite holy in spite of where they went to Mass. Usually in such a case the person has a strong prayer life, reads TAN books, etc. Likewise, we've all met trads who are so awful and/or worldly, the average atheist out-shines them in virtue.

    We have met plenty of worldly traditional Catholics, both on- and offline. On one hand, you have the bitter, angry traditional Catholic who has forgotten what true charity is, but loves to consider himself better and belittle everyone. On the other hand, you have a Catholic homeschooling mom of 7 who dresses her girls in a feminine manner (skirts, dresses), weaves the Faith into daily life, and lives a completely Catholic life -- yet she and her family attend the novus ordo.

    Who's going to have a better chance of saving his soul? I suppose some people like Raoul would say "A" -- I would say "B".

    God gives His grace to the humble, remember. And we are nothing -- worse than nothing -- without grace.

    Matthew
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Question for Myrna
    « Reply #7 on: July 30, 2010, 12:13:28 AM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    I don't know about that, SJB.


    SJB already knows the answer, as do I.  None of the SV chapels requires an abjuration, as such would be absurd.
    + Vincit veritas +


    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Question for Myrna
    « Reply #8 on: July 30, 2010, 12:16:46 AM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    If they really treat them like Protestants when they walk in the door, I wouldn't be surprised if many of them walked right back out.


    They do not...the crossover is actually quite simple and painless.

    This is actually one of the main practical points made in favor of the Guerardian thesis versus 'strict' sedevacantism -- and it is one the strict sedes NEVER touch (wisely, too, IMO).
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline MaterDominici

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    Question for Myrna
    « Reply #9 on: July 30, 2010, 12:42:33 AM »
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  • Quote from: gladius_veritatis
    Quote from: MaterDominici
    If they really treat them like Protestants when they walk in the door, I wouldn't be surprised if many of them walked right back out.


    They do not...the crossover is actually quite simple and painless.

    This is actually one of the main practical points made in favor of the Guerardian thesis versus 'strict' sedevacantism -- and it is one the strict sedes NEVER touch (wisely, too, IMO).


    You lost me there... I might have to employ Google to figure out what you're talking about.  :smirk:

    (ADD: Google found me an explanation, written by ... YOU!)

    I will say, though, I've heard various things about sede chapels such as "they make you sign a paper agreeing to ..." or "if you go elsewhere, you can't come back". Practically speaking, though, is there really a bouncer at the door?  :laugh1:
    "If I could only make the faithful sing the Kyrie, the Gloria, the Credo, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei ... that would be to me the finest triumph sacred music could have, for it is in really taking part in the liturgy that the faithful will preserve their devotion. I would take the Tantum ...

    Offline MyrnaM

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    Question for Myrna
    « Reply #10 on: July 30, 2010, 08:16:06 AM »
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  • Matthew,  in my note above I did say that many in the novus ordo may have the Faith, I agree to that.  I also agree that just because you are a Traditional Catholic does not mean you are a saint.

    I was explaining to Mater that CMRI does not consider the novus ordo religion Catholic, and they do not.   I am surprised that Mater did not realize that. This is why CMRI wants nothing to do with Vatican II, they have NO authority.

    CMRI does not refuse people who come in off the street, people that are properly dressed etc., they do not refuse anyone Communion unless they know for sure they are not Catholic.  

    Quote
    I will say, though, I've heard various things about sede chapels such as "they make you sign a paper agreeing to ..." or "if you go elsewhere, you can't come back". Practically speaking, though, is there really a bouncer at the door?


    I can't speak for other chapels than CMRI, but we do not have "bouncers" at the door, we have a few ushers, but they don't watch the people coming in as a bouncer might do.  

    Believe me! Mater a new comer would be treated very well, with opened arms.  The Faith would be explained to them completely and some might take longer depending on, as Matthew said in his post, some have the Faith already.  While others have to start from the beginning.

    I have talked to Father about my granddaughter and if I should teach her the proper way to receive communion in her novus ordo parish, I was told she is only receiving bread, and we don't want her to worship bread.  

    In fact that is exactly what she told me, when I asked her what her first communion was, she said "bread from heaven".

    It is very sad that I can not tell her she is receiving Our Lord.
     


    Offline wallflower

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    Question for Myrna
    « Reply #11 on: July 30, 2010, 08:27:51 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Myrna, I'm sorry that your novus ordo granddaughter is so ignorant of the Catholic Faith and morals.

    However, that is not the case with every novus ordo-attending Catholic.

    As YOU know, I don't believe that everyone in the novus ordo has lost the Faith.

    When a huge torpedo hits a battleship, YES some people die instantly, but others are maimed, critically wounded, seriously wounded -- even lightly wounded or completely unscathed!

    That's a good analogy for the novus ordo. It's like staying on a battleship under attack by an enemy ship. You're taking your life (Faith) into your hands. People getting wounded and dying all around you, and the more time goes on the higher the casualty list.

    No joke, I've met people in the novus ordo who were quite holy in spite of where they went to Mass. Usually in such a case the person has a strong prayer life, reads TAN books, etc. Likewise, we've all met trads who are so awful and/or worldly, the average atheist out-shines them in virtue.

    We have met plenty of worldly traditional Catholics, both on- and offline. On one hand, you have the bitter, angry traditional Catholic who has forgotten what true charity is, but loves to consider himself better and belittle everyone. On the other hand, you have a Catholic homeschooling mom of 7 who dresses her girls in a feminine manner (skirts, dresses), weaves the Faith into daily life, and lives a completely Catholic life -- yet she and her family attend the novus ordo.

    Who's going to have a better chance of saving his soul? I suppose some people like Raoul would say "A" -- I would say "B".

    God gives His grace to the humble, remember. And we are nothing -- worse than nothing -- without grace.

    Matthew


    This is so true. My parents were the only ones out of large families who kept to tradition. All the others are NO. Many have completely lost their Faith and we're a couple generations down now, where Faith barely there at all anymore. But I still see them as Catholic by their baptisms. They may be heretical, apostate or non-practicing but that mark of baptism is an indelible one and we never know when/if they will come back.

    I have one cousin who attends NO and who showed very little tendency towards the Faith in her younger years. She's in her mid/late thirties now and has suffered much in the way of a heart condition. She has grown abundantly in her Faith and has started leaning heavily towards conservative/traditional ways. She would prefer to attend the Latin Mass but feels it is her duty and calling to stay in her diocese and work to have it and other traditional ways brought back in. She runs the League of Mary for their area and has put a lot of energy into reviving it. Her Faith is a living part of her life that just keeps deepening and she's right on track with her beliefs. She is absolutely a Catholic, NO Mass or not.  

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Question for Myrna
    « Reply #12 on: July 30, 2010, 10:56:50 AM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    (ADD: Google found me an explanation, written by ... YOU!)


    LOL!  If you stll need/want some info, you might find more if you search for 'sedeprivationism', 'cassiciacum thesis', etc.

    Actually, here is one of the explanations available online...

    http://www.sodalitiumpianum.com/index.php?pid=27
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline gladius_veritatis

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    Question for Myrna
    « Reply #13 on: July 30, 2010, 11:10:35 AM »
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  • Quote from: MyrnaM
    I was explaining to Mater that CMRI does not consider the novus ordo religion Catholic, and they do not.   I am surprised that Mater did not realize that


    Oh, Mater grasps that part just fine...but considering the V2 religion as antithetical to the Faith and considering the concrete individuals who practice it as non-members of the Church is where it gets dicey, as there has been no authoritative statement denouncing the errors and shenanigans of the last 40+ years.

    Quote
    This is why CMRI wants nothing to do with Vatican II, they have NO authority.


    But Mater's point...and Matthew's...and mine...is that no one in Traddieland has ANY authority to say that so-and-so (ensnared in the Novus Ordo) is, in fact, outside Holy Church.

    This is due to the fact that, like it or lump it, the Novus Ordo has not been severed from Holy Church in the order of law.

    I am NOT saying you should encourage your granddaughter to go to receive communion when you know her beliefs are not correct...I am just saying that any trad priest would have his hands full trying to explain/justify his actions (via Catholic principles, law, and norms of conduct) if he were to publicly refuse her comunion.
    + Vincit veritas +

    Offline Trinity

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    Question for Myrna
    « Reply #14 on: July 30, 2010, 11:37:06 AM »
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  • I was in NO for almost 40 years.  When I found CMRI, thanks to Eamon, I went to confession.  But because I knew that I probably hadn't been properly absolved in the NO, I figured there were still sins unacounted for.  So I asked His Excellency if I should forego communion.

    He looked at me in some surprise and said, "Why?  You've made your confession."  When I explained, he still said I should go to communion.

    I agree with Matthew.  There are very holy people out there.  The only rub is that I still believe we have to be in the Body of Christ to enter heaven.  I just keep hoping.  God has many ways of overcoming obstacles.  Even if it is easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle, with God all things are possible.
    +RIP
    Please pray for the repose of her soul.

     

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