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Author Topic: Question for Lad about sedepriv  (Read 5371 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Question for Lad about sedepriv
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2019, 08:28:51 AM »
There’s a priest on Twitter Fr. Despósito who is a professor at MHT seminary and holds the thesis. He would probably be able to answer this.

Link to his profile: https://twitter.com/FrDesposito

I'd be a little cautious of MHT's positon, since MHT has always put a strong sedevacantist spin on sedeprivationism.  Father Sanborn did not initially buy into it, but it was made a condition for his consecration by Bishop McKenna.

It would be more important to get someone who knew the mind of Bishop Guerard des Lauriers rather than putting their own spin on it.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Question for Lad about sedepriv
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2019, 08:32:15 AM »
And I don't now whether any of the main or original sedeprivatonists thought through this.

But my own flavor of sedeprivationism has the following consequences:

If a material-only pope appoints a bishop, then that bishop is legitimate, and provided that he himself does not have an impediment to formally exercising the authority of the Episcopal See, then he himself does have ordinary jurisdiction.

This completely wipes away the ecclesia-vacantist objection to sedevacantism.  I'm entirely certain that there are some members of the hierarchy who are not pertinacious heretics.  Very few are not in material error, but there are some who are not at all pertinacious but are of good will ... buying into the Vatican II nonsense only because they believe it to have been the teaching of the Church.

Now, you could argue that they are not valid bishops ... but that is true only of the Latin Rite.  Eastern Rite consecrations and ordinations are still entirely valid.  So if you could find any non-pertinacious Catholic bishops in their ranks, then these men hold ordinary jurisdiction.


Offline Yeti

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Re: Question for Lad about sedepriv
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2019, 02:20:17 PM »
This completely wipes away the ecclesia-vacantist objection to sedevacantism.

I've never understood this objection anyway. The Church is not vacant, and no sedevacantist ever said it was. The Church is composed of all baptized believers who profess the true Faith. There are at least thousands, and probably millions of such people in the world today.

I'm entirely certain that there are some members of the hierarchy who are not pertinacious heretics.

Interesting. Do you have any names you can give us?

Re: Question for Lad about sedepriv
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2019, 02:21:58 PM »
I've never understood this objection anyway. The Church is not vacant, and no sedevacantist ever said it was. The Church is composed of all baptized believers who profess the true Faith. There are at least thousands, and probably millions of such people in the world today.
There still needs to be a hierarchy or the Church has defected. 

Re: Question for Lad about sedepriv
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2019, 02:26:43 PM »
I've never understood this objection anyway.
Ecclesia-vacantism is the idea that all episcopal sees, or dioceses, are vacant, because of the lack of the Pope to appoint Bishops to them. The syllogism from SVism to EVism would be, 

Major: Only a Pope can appoint Bishops to sees/dioceses. 
Minor: SVism says there has been no Pope for 61 years.  
Conclusion: Therefore, no diocesan Bishop has been appointed for 61 years. 
Corollary: Only one diocesan Bishop still exists. [source for that, http://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/sordb2.html]

Namely, Archbishop Bernardino Piñera Carvallo appointed by Pope Pius XII on 27 April 1958 as Bishop (now Emeritus) of La Serena.

That's the consideration against "straight or simple sedevacantism". Ladislaus is saying he believes sede-privationism solves it.