Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 23 24 [25] 26 27

Author Topic: Question About V2 Popes' Infallibility  (Read 10129 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Question About V2 Popes' Infallibility
« Reply #120 on: October 01, 2024, 09:22:44 AM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 01, 2024, 08:25:14 AM
:facepalm:  The 2 items in question "public abjuration" and "public retraction" .... these are not a public confession, which is what your quote is referencing.  Your quote has nothing to do with abjuration/retraction.

An abjuration/retraction is a formal admitting that you were a heretic/schismatic.  That you believed, supported, condoned, and pushed error.  Since your errors were public, then your retraction must be public.  It's exactly the type of letter that +Vigano wrote.  He admitted he was wrong about V2, and Conciliarism, the new mass, etc.  Then he explained why they are wrong and Orthodoxy is right.
All Trent is saying above is that it's not a Divine requirement.  It also says that SECRET sins should not be made public.  But sins of heresy/schism are NOT SECRET.  They cause scandal and the scandal must be undone.  So says canon law.  That's the whole point of a suspected heretic being "called to rome" to be interrogated.  It's the entire basis of the Spanish Inquisition.  Suspected heretics were examined to determine if they were a) confused on doctrine (material heretics, or b) obstinate in error (formal heretics).

:facepalm:  No one is talking about in 'danger of death' which situation has all manner of exceptions.
As I said Pax, stop making your own rules. Per canon law (you can look it up) normally, confession is all that is necessary - unless the confessor or bishop require a public abjuration, or, if the penitent is a new convert. 
Logged

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Question About V2 Popes' Infallibility
« Reply #121 on: October 01, 2024, 09:30:48 AM »
Quote from: 2Vermont on October 01, 2024, 08:30:49 AM
So, in what sense did Martin Luther "remain a Catholic until his bitter end"? I am still looking for Church teaching that would support that such a statement is Catholic.
If you can replace the word "army" with "Church," it is in this sense.

You desert from the army, far as you're concerned you're no longer in the army, as far as army is concerned you're still in the army. 
Logged

Online Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Question About V2 Popes' Infallibility
« Reply #122 on: October 01, 2024, 09:58:41 AM »

Quote
No, it’s wrong in all senses. A heretic is not a Catholic.
Try to define heretic without using the word 'catholic'.
Logged

Offline Quo vadis Domine

  • Supporter
Re: Question About V2 Popes' Infallibility
« Reply #123 on: October 01, 2024, 10:00:51 AM »
Quote from: Pax Vobis on October 01, 2024, 09:58:41 AM
Try to define heretic without using the word 'catholic'.

Is that all you have? :facepalm:
Logged

Online Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Question About V2 Popes' Infallibility
« Reply #124 on: October 01, 2024, 10:07:08 AM »
Quote
As I said Pax, stop making your own rules. 
I'm not.  I'm pointing out the different levels of crimes in canon law.  You are simply generalizing the crimes. 

Quote
Per canon law (you can look it up) normally, confession is all that is necessary
See?  You're using the word "normally" which is the general rule.  But this means that there are cases where confession IS NOT ALL THAT IS NECESSARY.  There's more required in order to obtain forgiveness.

Martin Luther could not simply go to confession and act like the 99 thesis he nailed to the church door didn't happen.  He was summoned to a meeting to be interrogated for his heresies, as his crimes were extreme.

Quote
 - unless the confessor or bishop require a public abjuration, or, if the penitent is a new convert. 
Or if the penalty requires a special forgiveness from the roman official, or a roman judge, or the pope himself.

Again, there is the general rule (which you hyper-focus on) and you are forgetting all the exceptions and other special cases which are contrary to the general rule.

You do this all the time.  Admit that the general rule AND exceptions exist.  You can't pick and choose.  It's both.
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 23 24 [25] 26 27
« previous next »