Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

« previous next »
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic: Question about the Indult  (Read 2693 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Yeti

  • Supporter
Re: Question about the Indult
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2025, 06:15:49 PM »
Quote from: HeidtXtreme on June 12, 2025, 04:26:22 PM
But in theory, if the priests were valid.
.

In practice, the priests are not valid. The Novus Ordo church, which offers the Masses you are wanting to attend, is not only a heretical sect, but it also has not permitted priests to be ordained in the traditional manner since the late sixties. All indult priests have been ordained using the modernist, Paul VI-invented rite of holy orders since the beginning. The Novus Ordo sect (by which I mean the sect whose main rite of worship is the Novus Ordo Mass, even if they permit a few people to use the tridentine rite) has never allowed any group to use the traditional rite of episcopal consecration, which means that even priests "ordained" using the old rite have been "ordained" using bishops consecrated in the new rite. The old rite of holy orders has been allowed in some cases, but as far as I know the old rite of episcopal consecration has never been allowed since 1969.
Logged

Offline Yeti

  • Supporter
Re: Question about the Indult
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2025, 06:18:08 PM »
Quote from: HeidtXtreme on June 12, 2025, 02:35:55 PM
If it were the only option available and no other option was within travel distance, and if you knew for certain that the priest was valid, would you attend an Indult Mass? If so, why do you think it would be okay to do so?
.

First of all, there is always a traditional chapel available. You just have to re-define your definition of "available" and re-evaluate how far you are willing to drive to get to Sunday Mass. (Hint: Given that it's only your eternal salvation that is dependent on your attendance at Mass and reception of valid sacraments, you should probably interpret that concept generously.) :facepalm:


And, just out of curiosity, how do you know that the priest was validly ordained?
Logged

Offline HeidtXtreme

Re: Question about the Indult
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2025, 07:29:51 PM »
Quote from: Yeti on June 12, 2025, 06:18:08 PM
.

First of all, there is always a traditional chapel available. You just have to re-define your definition of "available" and re-evaluate how far you are willing to drive to get to Sunday Mass. (Hint: Given that it's only your eternal salvation that is dependent on your attendance at Mass and reception of valid sacraments, you should probably interpret that concept generously.) :facepalm:


And, just out of curiosity, how do you know that the priest was validly ordained?
I live 20 minutes from an SSPX chapel so I’m not concerned about availability. It was merely a hypothetical question, I was simply trying to learn what people would do in a situation like britpapist described.
Logged

Offline Pax Vobis

  • Supporter
Re: Question about the Indult
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2025, 08:17:09 PM »
Quote from: ThatBritPapist on June 12, 2025, 04:33:28 PM
If a so-called Valid Priest gives a Valid Mass. Perhaps under certain circuмstances only If I am sure if the if the priests were valid.
I knew an old frail Catholic Priest who was ordained before the changes, who is your regular old diocesan priest and he has a TLM. He showed me his Ordination Card and Pictures and he seemed to have not cared about the changes and just celebrated the TLM like nothing changed! He was quite sound and traditionalist in his teaching so I did go to this Mass when I was in the area.
Yes, there used to be a similar situation in my area.  But that priest died a few years ago.  Not too many still alive who were ordained before 1970.

The issue with the indult is that there is a triple-doubt:
1.  Doubt associated with the consecrating bishop/consecration formula.  (Not a lot of bishops alive who were consecrated prior to 1970.)
2.  Doubt associated with the ordination formula.
3.  Doubt associated with the new rite (or some hybrid old/new rite).

There is positive doubt and canon law does NOT ALLOW attendance at positively doubtful sacraments/masses, without grave sin (except of the situation is an emergency).
Logged

Offline Stubborn

  • Supporter
Re: Question about the Indult
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2025, 05:17:36 AM »
Quote from: HeidtXtreme on June 12, 2025, 02:35:55 PM
If it were the only option available and no other option was within travel distance, and if you knew for certain that the priest was valid, would you attend an Indult Mass? If so, why do you think it would be okay to do so?
If it were the only option, I still would not attend it, but IMO, if I for some reason I ever did and for those who would attend it, they should attend it as they would a streaming Mass on Youtube.   

Fr. Wathen:
People should know that attending the Indult Mass represents a very serious compromise of their faith. Before a bishop allows the Traditional Latin Mass in one of his Novus Ordo churches, according to papal direction, he exacts this commitment: Those to whom the Mass is made available must give a verbal acceptance to the Second Vatican Council and to the new mass. Whether they know it or not, everyone who attends the Indult Mass makes the same implicit commitment. In the days of the Rome persecutions, a Catholic could escape martyrdom if he would burn the tiniest pinch of incense before one of the countless Roman gods. The commitment which the pope and bishops require is that pinch of incense.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3
« previous next »