Author Topic: Question about New Rite of NO (Read 18945 times)

Clemens Maria · « **Reply #10 on:** February 19, 2019, 08:47:04 AM »

Saying that the Novus Ordo rites are doubtful is an understatement. If the only change was the dropping of the “ut” we could say the rite was doubtful because it failed to meet the minimum requirements for validity set forth by Pope Pius XII in the 1940s. But the changes were much more extensive and substantial than that. Pope Leo found that the Anglican rites were “absolutely null and utterly void” (doubtlessly invalid). Arguably the Novus Ordo is more egregiously deformed than the Anglican rites. Read Fr Cekada’s response to Fr Pierre-Marie. In fact when I read Fr Pierre-Marie’s article before reading Fr Cekada’s I was already convinced that it was invalid. The first half of Fr Pierre-Marie’s article paints a horrifying picture of the Novus Ordo rite that nothing written in the second half was able to convince me it was valid.

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #11 on:** February 19, 2019, 09:11:02 AM »

Quote

Saying that the Novus Ordo rites are doubtful is an understatement....The first half of Fr Pierre-Marie’s article paints a horrifying picture of the Novus Ordo rite that nothing written in the second half was able to convince me it was valid.

Ok, I get your point, but why does your opinion matter? You're not the Church, so it doesn't. Even if 99% of the laity believed the same as you, it doesn't matter, because the Church isn't a democracy; the rules aren't determined by popularity or majority; She is a monarchy, which rules from top to bottom. Until the Church says they are absolutely invalid, then all we can say is that they are extremely doubtful, and avoid them for that reason (which is reason enough). No one outside of rome can say otherwise with any degree of authority or certainty.

Clemens Maria · « **Reply #12 on:** February 19, 2019, 12:56:23 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 19, 2019, 09:11:02 AM

Ok, I get your point, but why does your opinion matter? You're not the Church, so it doesn't. Even if 99% of the laity believed the same as you, it doesn't matter, because the Church isn't a democracy; the rules aren't determined by popularity or majority; She is a monarchy, which rules from top to bottom. Until the Church says they are absolutely invalid, then all we can say is that they are extremely doubtful, and avoid them for that reason (which is reason enough). No one outside of rome can say otherwise with any degree of authority or certainty.

If you're not a sede, Rome has spoken. The NOM is valid. End of discussion. Your opinion doesn't matter. The Church is a monarchy and the Pope has ruled that it is valid. If you say they are doubtful you are making your own opinion greater than the Pope's decision. But if you are a sede....

Pax Vobis · « **Reply #13 on:** February 19, 2019, 02:24:31 PM »

My point is that yes, I agree with you that there is MUCH doubt on the issue. This doubt allows all catholics to avoid the issue, per canon law. But we can't cross the line and say that they are "absolutely" invalid; only Rome can make this decision. We can say that they are "more likely than not" invalid, but we can't say 100%.

forlorn · « **Reply #14 on:** February 19, 2019, 02:45:58 PM »

Quote from: Pax Vobis on February 19, 2019, 02:24:31 PM

My point is that yes, I agree with you that there is MUCH doubt on the issue. This doubt allows all catholics to avoid the issue, per canon law. But we can't cross the line and say that they are "absolutely" invalid; only Rome can make this decision. We can say that they are "more likely than not" invalid, but we can't say 100%.

Rome made the decision that it IS valid.

Anyway, to OP: The only changes to the NO I know of are that they changed the translation of much of it, at least in English, but based on the wonky grammar and what I heard, apparently the new translation was CLOSER to the Latin than before. So I doubt it fits your criteria for the moment when the NO Mass will become the abomination.

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Author Topic: Question about New Rite of NO (Read 18945 times)

Clemens Maria

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Pax Vobis

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Clemens Maria

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Pax Vobis

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forlorn

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