I think that a lot of Cardinals believe in it.

There's a story that Cardinal Spellman rented a boat, loaded some sheep on it, and sailed up and down the Tiber before the 1958 Conclave with the hope that this stunt would qualify him as the Pastor et Nauta "Shepherd and Sailor".

Ratzinger went to give a speech at a famous Benedictine monastery right after John Paul II died to establish himself as the "Glory of the Olive" (then took the name "Benedict").

Wow - I can't believe that Spellman did that!  How bizarre.  Also, do you really think that Cardinal Ratzinger wanted to be Pope or do you think (if there is any connection at all) that by trying to establish himself as the Glory of the Olive he wanted to ensure continuity to the prophecy due to its popularity?

I always imagine the man who becomes Pope is one who doesn't want the job - perhaps I am wrong and the politics really are so significant that everyone wants the top job.

If it is true then Pius XII is the "Angelic Pastor."  So either these prophecies have a good deal of sarcasm buried within them, or they are not true.

CM, who believes Benedict XV was the first of the modern anti-Popes, would probably like his name though -- "Religion Laid Waste."  And it has already been shown that St. Malachy cites anti-Popes as Popes.  

I believe Pius XII is actually a counterfeit Angelic Pastor and that the real Angelic Pastor will dethrone the fraud.  So in a way that name kind of works for him as an anti-Pope.  

I wonder, is there any connection between Great Monarch prophecies and St. Malachy prophecies, since the same "Angelic Pastor" title is used?  Are they all part of some Rosicrucian plot?  

Jamie said:

"I always imagine the man who becomes Pope is one who doesn't want the job - perhaps I am wrong and the politics really are so significant that everyone wants the top job."

Maybe a couple Popes were honestly like that.  But it's hard for me to believe that Borgias and Medicis didn't want to be Pope and control the Church and its funds.  Maybe I'm cynical.  Those who REALLY don't want the job could flee for the hills like St. Celestine.  

I believe in certain circuмstances it would be sinful to refuse the job.  St. Peter was THE man for the job.  If he tried to get out of it, he would have let down God.  But there are other times when the Church is so compromised, it may be better to let a compromised Pope, one who is worldly and political, do the job.  I would never have wanted to be a Pope during the Renaissance, simply because I don't think it would have been easy to have saved your soul in that time and in that office, though I like certain Popes of that era -- mostly Paul III, Paul IV and Pius V.

Randy Engel's got a whole chapter on Spellman in The Rite of Sodomy.

The banana comment sounds so lavender.