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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: tadeas on October 08, 2009, 09:29:59 AM

Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: tadeas on October 08, 2009, 09:29:59 AM
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Telesphorus on October 08, 2009, 09:46:08 AM
It is one of the strongest arguments against the post-conciliar popes that their change in attitude towards the enemies of the Church is incompatible with their office.

It is also one of the hardest to advance, because so few Catholics understand the role of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ.
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: RomanCatholic1953 on October 18, 2009, 08:49:32 AM
Truth to the Power.
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Classiccom on October 18, 2009, 09:25:57 AM
Tadeos Quote

"All who as christians have become freemasons are automatically excomunicated. This is said by several papal bulls. But not only this. In the bull In Eminenti of Clement XII, 1738, is declared that masonic and similar societes are condemned, and that is excomunicated who favours them, receives them in his home, apartment or elsewhere, and provides them, directly or indirectly, publicly or secretively, an advice or help.
"

========================================

   This explains why I only had luck with the daughters of 33rd degree Masons. !  I guess I was targeted.
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: CM on October 19, 2009, 05:29:56 AM
Quote from: Telesphorus
It is also one of the hardest to advance, because so few Catholics understand the role of Fɾҽҽmαsσɳɾყ.


Now for some interesting irony:

Learn all about the Freemasons, in a video put together by Muslims, of all people.

Note that the video (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3923632392892449905&hl=undefined#) takes a turn towards falsehood around the 45 minute mark, but what they say about the "dajal" should be applied to Antichrist.

Also remember that the Freemasons are the puppets, that's right the puppets of the Jєωιѕн Mafia, the apostate State of Israel, who is pulling ALL the strings.
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: kamalayka on October 19, 2009, 12:37:08 PM
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: roscoe on October 19, 2009, 01:04:13 PM
Could you give us the name of a pope besides Urban Vi who has murdered or raped anyone-- and he will be declared anti-pope someday as will Boniface.

Any other Pope who may hav e done that has been declared anti-pope.

The people falsely claiming to have the God-given right to establish their own church are the v2 anti-popes.
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: tadeas on October 19, 2009, 02:32:03 PM
Quote from: kamalayka
I don't think John Paul II or Benedict XVI have ever supported these groups!

"Wherefore We command most strictly and in virtue of holy obedience, all the faithful of whatever state...that none, under any pretext or for any reason, shall dare or presume... to receive them in their houses or  dwellings... be present with them... to give them in any way advice, encouragement."

JP2 and B16 did these things.

Quote from: kamalayka
And if they did, it still would not justify breaking away from the Church.

"under pain of excommunication for all the above mentioned people, which is incurred by the very deed without any declaration being required"
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: CM on October 22, 2009, 09:09:21 PM
Quote from: tadeas
Quote from: kamalayka
And if they did, it still would not justify breaking away from the Church.

"under pain of excommunication for all the above mentioned people, which is incurred by the very deed without any declaration being required"


Hence THEY broke away from the Church, not those who rightly reject them as excommunicated antipopes.
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 29, 2009, 01:27:13 PM
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 29, 2009, 01:28:35 PM
Quote from: tadeas
All who as christians have become freemasons are automatically excomunicated.


even if-I mean a big IF-these events happened, does not mean those men joined Masons.....
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 29, 2009, 01:30:12 PM
Quote from: tadeas
Quote from: kamalayka
I don't think John Paul II or Benedict XVI have ever supported these groups!

"Wherefore We command most strictly and in virtue of holy obedience, all the faithful of whatever state...that none, under any pretext or for any reason, shall dare or presume... to receive them in their houses or  dwellings... be present with them... to give them in any way advice, encouragement."

JP2 and B16 did these things.

Quote from: kamalayka
And if they did, it still would not justify breaking away from the Church.

"under pain of excommunication for all the above mentioned people, which is incurred by the very deed without any declaration being required"


again, accusations out of thin air....PROOF??
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 29, 2009, 01:32:10 PM
I talked to a few Masons i worked with, shared acoffee with them........EEKSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS, now I suddenly am one??????? read your own Papal quote, talking to one, visiting with one does not automatically make you one......
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: roscoe on October 29, 2009, 02:26:16 PM
There are a couple of us here who do not see the chair of Peter as vacant even though we reject the v2 anti-popes since 1958. We of course believe that Gregory XVII was True Pope( for better or for worse) until 1989.

Over a 30 yr period he would have appointed a Curia in petto and they would have elected a new Pope although I do not know who it is.
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: tadeas on October 30, 2009, 09:50:24 AM
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 30, 2009, 09:56:41 AM
Still to fit your papal quotes,etc...you have to join a Masonic lodge, not merely address one (likely sinful in another category) or talk to a mason.....

Did they actually join a Lodge somewhere at sometime??

was it wrong for Popes to address Bnai? yes-it was..was it wrong for him to address Trilateral Commission, yes it was...does not prove he joined them nor that he lost his seat over it......
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: tadeas on October 30, 2009, 09:57:21 AM
Quote from: Belloc
Quote from: tadeas
All who as christians have become freemasons are automatically excomunicated.


even if-I mean a big IF-these events happened, does not mean those men joined Masons.....

Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict XVI didn't need to join Masons to be excomunicated, it's sufficient to support or invite them.
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 30, 2009, 10:02:48 AM
speaking does not support an organization.....and your quote refers strictly to joining a Lodge and participating in it..

speaking to groups another issue....not right, likely sinful, but another issue......you keep trying to ignore your own quote's meat and tie them to it.......read it again, apply it....
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: tadeas on October 30, 2009, 10:04:26 AM
Quote from: Belloc
Still to fit your papal quotes,etc...you have to join a Masonic lodge, not merely address one (likely sinful in another category) or talk to a mason.....

Did they actually join a Lodge somewhere at sometime??

was it wrong for Popes to address Bnai? yes-it was..was it wrong for him to address Trilateral Commission, yes it was...does not prove he joined them nor that he lost his seat over it......

"Wherefore We command most strictly and in virtue of holy obedience, all the faithful of whatever state...that none, under any pretext or for any reason, shall dare or presume... to receive them in their houses or  dwellings... be present with them... give power or permission for them to meet elsewhere, to help them in any way, to give them in any way advice, encouragement or support." (In Eminenti)

They invited Masons in Vatican, gave them a space for their meeting in Vatican, supported them verbally...
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 30, 2009, 10:04:28 AM
part of it may apply, true, but can you yourself say you are fee of this? You know everyone's pqast theat has come under your roof???
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 30, 2009, 10:09:29 AM
Well, wil lahve to go with my earlier assertation, last Pope was Gregory XVI..there that, wil lchange my mind (if Raou lcan do it within time of one post, so too can I)....

last Pope Gregory XVI..there then.....
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 30, 2009, 10:09:59 AM
opps, there goes my spellign again, silly me....sorry CM, only you and you alone are Perfect..... :roll-laugh1:
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 30, 2009, 10:11:33 AM
Quote from: tadeas
Quote from: Belloc
Still to fit your papal quotes,etc...you have to join a Masonic lodge, not merely address one (likely sinful in another category) or talk to a mason.....

Did they actually join a Lodge somewhere at sometime??

was it wrong for Popes to address Bnai? yes-it was..was it wrong for him to address Trilateral Commission, yes it was...does not prove he joined them nor that he lost his seat over it......

"Wherefore We command most strictly and in virtue of holy obedience, all the faithful of whatever state...that none, under any pretext or for any reason, shall dare or presume... to receive them in their houses or  dwellings... be present with them... give power or permission for them to meet elsewhere, to help them in any way, to give them in any way advice, encouragement or support." (In Eminenti)

They invited Masons in Vatican, gave them a space for their meeting in Vatican, supported them verbally...


How then do we convert them, if we cannot look at them, be in same room, talk to them, write to them, carrier pigeon.etc....Did not Jesus talk to the sinful Mary Magdalene???

but...anyway, no Pope since Gregory XVI....
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: tadeas on October 30, 2009, 10:11:53 AM
Quote from: Belloc
speaking does not support an organization.....and your quote refers strictly to joining a Lodge and participating in it..

My quote in OP refers not only to joining a Lodge. Read it again!

Quote from: Belloc
part of it may apply, true, but can you yourself say you are fee of this? You know everyone's pqast theat has come under your roof???

A bad deed may be a sin only if is done knowingly and willingly.
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 30, 2009, 10:14:54 AM
again, I am pulling a Raoul, changed my mind 1-2 minute ago, last Pope is GFregory XVI, so  Iwill now pull a  CM and say you then, in light of this, are also a heretic anti-pope supproter and will thrown in a favorite of his== :heretic:

Thankfully, I know all supernaturally....

last Pope Gregory XVI, anyone disagrees is a heretic (did I do good CM, did I did I??)
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: tadeas on October 30, 2009, 10:20:17 AM
Quote from: Belloc
Quote from: tadeas
Quote from: Belloc
Still to fit your papal quotes,etc...you have to join a Masonic lodge, not merely address one (likely sinful in another category) or talk to a mason.....

Did they actually join a Lodge somewhere at sometime??

was it wrong for Popes to address Bnai? yes-it was..was it wrong for him to address Trilateral Commission, yes it was...does not prove he joined them nor that he lost his seat over it......

"Wherefore We command most strictly and in virtue of holy obedience, all the faithful of whatever state...that none, under any pretext or for any reason, shall dare or presume... to receive them in their houses or  dwellings... be present with them... give power or permission for them to meet elsewhere, to help them in any way, to give them in any way advice, encouragement or support." (In Eminenti)

They invited Masons in Vatican, gave them a space for their meeting in Vatican, supported them verbally...


How then do we convert them, if we cannot look at them, be in same room, talk to them, write to them, carrier pigeon.etc....Did not Jesus talk to the sinful Mary Magdalene???

1.
Do you see an effort by JP2 or B16 to convert them?
2.
You can talk to a mason to convert him on the street, you can send him some apologetic materials...
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 30, 2009, 10:25:55 AM
Sometimes we convert people by our actions, not our words...

so, I can only talk to a Mason on the streets,then?


Last Pope, Gregory XVI...
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: tadeas on October 30, 2009, 10:26:21 AM
Quote from: roscoe
There are a couple of us here who do not see the chair of Peter as vacant even though we reject the v2 anti-popes since 1958. We of course believe that Gregory XVII was True Pope( for better or for worse) until 1989.

Over a 30 yr period he would have appointed a Curia in petto and they would have elected a new Pope although I do not know who it is.

Sorry, my thread title is misleading. It is the proof of antipapacy of Paul VI, John Paul II and Benedict XVI. As to Siri, I don't have a settled opinion.
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 30, 2009, 10:40:16 AM
Siri could not be for several reasons:

1. had he actually gotten majority of ballots, then we have a problem as he either resigned under threats or pressure-either not good light for him and not courageously dfending the Fiath.Eithr way, if he stepped down andrefused investiture, he refused it, end of story.One could say he was eelcted, but never crowned Pope...not that he was all the time he was in "captivity"....
2. he was elected and was quickly moved to undisclosed location for 30-40 yrs, talking to no one, no one missed him, no one he slipped a note to saying "hey, I am a captive" or soemthing like that
3. he confides in all that time with an obscure and unknown young Fillipino priest that is now all of a sudden a star over it
4. Several pics of him, he does not look like a captive
5.No Pope since Gregory XVI, remember...
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: tadeas on October 30, 2009, 10:50:35 AM
Quote from: Belloc
Sometimes we convert people by our actions, not our words...

so, I can only talk to a Mason on the streets,then?

The essential is what you are not to be allowed to do, and this is said in the bull In Eminenti. Take it or leave it.
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 30, 2009, 11:01:28 AM
I take it, but as noted to others, it is how you apply it daily in real life situations that is at crux of the problem.....merely saying "thats what it says in B/W, thats what it means" and going no further in how to implement and apply is like Fundies w/a bible...not much difference in some Trads and Fundies actually and in the wrong way, not the right way (such as opposing abortion, queers,etc)....

last Pope, Gregory XVI.....
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: tadeas on October 30, 2009, 11:58:31 AM
Quote from: Belloc
I take it, but as noted to others, it is how you apply it daily in real life situations that is at crux of the problem.....merely saying "thats what it says in B/W, thats what it means" and going no further in how to implement and apply is like Fundies w/a bible...not much difference in some Trads and Fundies actually and in the wrong way, not the right way (such as opposing abortion, queers,etc)....

The bull says, primarily, of secret societes, and that Catholics are forbiden to support, help, assist etc these societes. So, if you know that someone is a Mason, you are not allowed to support, help, assist etc him on the basis of his membership in a lodge (e.g. coppying materials for him), but you of course may support, help, assist etc him on the basis of his fellowmanship (e.g. giving first aid).

If your boss is a Mason, you may come to his office on a work meeting, because it's not a masonic meeting, or a meeting for masonic intentions; you doesn't meet with a secret society.
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: roscoe on October 30, 2009, 12:04:33 PM
For some reason Belloc is accusing tadeas of thinking that the popes since Greg XVI are anti-popes. I have not gotten that from reading tadeas-- his posts say the anti-popes don't start until Paul 6 while I would say John 23.

It appears that Belloc believes a bunch of heretical anti-popes are True Popes.
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 30, 2009, 12:04:47 PM
Gotcha, thanks for clarifications....
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: roscoe on October 30, 2009, 12:07:20 PM
Belloc is apparently admitting to 'pulling a Raoul or CM' which is something myself or tadeas have not done.

btw Belloc-- could you explain your moniker to us. If you are a fan of the historian H Belloc, it has never been brought out in your posts that I can recall.
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 30, 2009, 12:09:30 PM
Quote from: roscoe
Belloc is apparently admitting to 'pulling a Raoul or CM' which is something myself or tadeas have not done.


Did not say you or Tad did......a Raoul means changing ones opinions and views repeteadly,on and on........I was poking fun at them during this thread, no you nor Tad,,,,
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: roscoe on October 30, 2009, 12:09:30 PM
Quote from: tadeas
Quote from: Belloc
Sometimes we convert people by our actions, not our words...

so, I can only talk to a Mason on the streets,then?

The essential is what you are not to be allowed to do, and this is said in the bull In Eminenti. Take it or leave it.


I hope others who were involved in the controversy of Gen 9:3 will take note of what tadeas has said about what one is NOT allowed to do.
Title: Proof of the current sede vacante
Post by: Belloc on October 30, 2009, 12:10:23 PM
Quote from: roscoe
btw Belloc-- could you explain your moniker to us. If you are a fan of the historian H Belloc, it has never been brought out in your posts that I can recall.


Nothing to explain really, no backstory,etc.....is your name Roscoe? if not, why the moniker? Quid pro.....