Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: Is Francis Pope?  (Read 3417 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lover of Truth

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8700
  • Reputation: +1159/-864
  • Gender: Male
Is Francis Pope?
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2015, 02:36:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority, of which it is true to say: "He who heareth you, heareth me" [Lk 10:16]; and generally what is expounded and inculcated in Encyclical Letters already for other reasons appertains to Catholic doctrine.

    (Pope Pius XII, Encyclical Humani Generis, n. 20; underlining added.)

    The is a perplexing statement for those not sure whether they must adhere to Francis or not.  Either the above is true or it is not.  If it is true and Francis is Pope we must consent to what he writes in Encyclicals.  It is therefore a good thing to know whether he is Pope or not.  We can know this with the help of all the authoritative docuмents at our fingertips.  If he does not appear to be Catholic we must reject him as Pope and have nothing to do with him.  If he does appear to be Catholic we must consent to all he writes in encyclicals.  If we err in good faith and through no fault of our own on either side for following our informed consciences we will not be condemned for it.  For God Who sees the heart will admire our efforts.  If we shun the responsibility of discerning the true state of the Church and her head (whether it be because we are afraid of the conclusion or any reason of convenience, shunning responsibility in itself would be wrong reason or not) then we will be held accountable.  If we are unable to make such a discernment due to mental limitations and or our state in life or for any other legitimate reason, if there be such, then we do the best we can given our state in life and mental abilities.  

    Broad statements suggesting that laypeople should not judge either way on the point or are not obligated to discern the issue to the degree they are able seems to stem from a personal preference (for various types of emotional reasons or attachments, or a misguided understanding of the papacy and the necessity of submitting to the Pope?) rather than Catholic theology.  

    If anyone can come up with something authoritative which claims the laity need not concern themselves with whether those who claim to hold ecclesiastical offices above them are Catholic or not or valid or not I would very much like to see it.  

    It would seem very strange were this to be the case but I would accept it if there is any sound supporting docuмentation on this, properly understood and with all the proper distinctions of course.  
    "I receive Thee, redeeming Prince of my soul. Out of love for Thee have I studied, watched through many nights, and exerted myself: Thee did I preach and teach. I have never said aught against Thee. Nor do I persist stubbornly in my views. If I have ever expressed myself erroneously on this Sacrament, I submit to the judgement of the Holy Roman Church, in obedience of which I now part from this world." Saint Thomas Aquinas the greatest Doctor of the Church

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 11528
    • Reputation: +6470/-1191
    • Gender: Female
    Is Francis Pope?
    « Reply #46 on: November 10, 2015, 02:55:32 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Lover of Truth

    I'm sorry, I should not have written the above.  But she kept accusing me of insulting her when I was not and I got tired of it and made her a prophet.  Obviously the docuмents I presented convicted her and instead of taking them at face value, which would mean she was proven wrong, she decided that I was insulting her.  I did not think she would resort to those tactics and was very disappointed as she seemed way above that in other writings.  She writes so clearly on other topics I thought we could discuss it without it becoming emotional and personal.  I was wrong.  I wash my hands of it now.  You can lead a horse etc.  


    I completely understand your reaction LoT.  The false accusations here and elsewhere are getting quite tiresome.