Author Topic: Private vs public vs formal vs material heretics (Read 4591 times)

2Vermont · « **on:** June 06, 2014, 06:53:47 PM »

I tried to do a search here regarding this topic and found it difficult to find exactly what I was looking for.

Wrt the pope issue, I remember reading that what matters is not whether the pope heretic is material or formal, but rather public or private. I also remember something along the lines that a Catholic can not be a material heretic. A Catholic can only be a formal heretic.

Also when St. Robert Bellarmine talks about "heretic pope" what kind of heretic is he talking about?

In this thread, could we elaborate on this including Church teaching, etc that backs it up?

Mithrandylan · « **Reply #1 on:** June 06, 2014, 06:55:01 PM »

I think if you read this you might have a better grasp on the issue of public heresy and membership: http://www.scribd.com/doc/224429380/Van-Noort-Vol-2-Members-of-the-Church

2Vermont · « **Reply #2 on:** June 06, 2014, 07:01:17 PM »

Thanks Mith! I've got someone on another forum bringing up the formal vs material argument against judging the pope a heretic, so I want to be more knowledgeable.

songbird · « **Reply #3 on:** June 06, 2014, 09:52:18 PM »

If they say the New Order -mass, would that be public enough! That in itself is Heresy!

Nishant · « **Reply #4 on:** June 07, 2014, 06:16:58 AM »

Material heresy, which is not heresy strictly so called but only error, ("if he is not obstinate, he is no longer in heresy but only in error" - St. Thomas link and "such men are not to be counted heretics" - St. Augustine link )

Quote from: Van Noort

Thus far we have been discussing Catholic teaching. It may be useful to add a few points about purely theological opinions – opinions with regard to the pope when he is not speaking ex cathedra. All theologians admit that the pope can make a mistake in matters of faith and morals when so speaking: either by proposing a false opinion in a matter not yet defined, or by innocently differing from some doctrine already defined. Theologians disagree, however, over the question of whether the pope can become a formal heretic by stubbornly clinging to an error in a matter already defined.

Quote from: Xavier Da Silveira

As is obvious, we are not discussing the possibility of the Pope being in material heresy. No one denies, that mistakenly or by inadvertence, the Supreme Pontiff can fall into material heresy, as a private person.

Only public and formal heretics (this is what St. Robert means by "manifest heretic" for he explains "the manifest heretic is not in any way a member of the Church, that is, neither spiritually nor corporally, which signifies that he is not such by internal union nor by external union") lose the pontificate. The sin of heresy, publicly manifested, is necessary to lose interior supernatural faith, membership in the Church, and the papal power. Someone who is only in error, even grave error, but holds what he does only because he sincerely believes it to the be the teaching of the Church is not a heretic but a Catholic who is gravely mistaken.