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Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: epiphany on May 12, 2022, 12:51:43 PM

Title: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: epiphany on May 12, 2022, 12:51:43 PM
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:

(https://i.imgur.com/A0vkI4N.png)

MUMBAI, India (ChurchMilitant.com (https://www.churchmilitant.com/)) - Faithful Catholics are slamming the archbishop of Bombay after churches hosted Ramadan meals and prayers and rang church bells to usher in the breaking of the Islamic fast.
(https://www.churchmilitant.com/images/uploads/news_feature/orlem.jpeg)
Muslims praying before the iftar meal at Our Lady of Lourdes

Hindus ridiculed Catholics on social media as Muslims prayed with their backsides offensively thrust up towards the crucifix and the Blessed Sacrament in a church led by the Jesuits of the Bombay province.
One-Way Street
"Will the Muslim community reciprocate the gesture and allow Catholics to offer Holy Mass in their mosques?" Blaise Gomes, with the Association of Concerned Catholics, asked Bombay's archbishop, Cdl. Oswald Gracias, in a strongly worded letter on Saturday. 
Such acts would only serve to provoke the Hindu-fundamentalist government, Gomes wrote. Christians and Muslims are facing mounting persecution from India's Hindu-nationalist rulers. "Wake up, Hindus, you are being played," a Hindu priest tweeted (https://twitter.com/chanakyashri/status/1517319390932631552?s=20&t=7ADosnPpD14Sg_jyU1ixFw).
Gomes also asked the archbishop if Catholic churches would begin hosting idols of the elephant-headed deity Ganesha during the popular Hindu festival of Ganesh Chaturthi and if Catholics would be asked to marry Muslims "to show solidarity and unity."



Cardinal Contradiction 
Gracias responded to Gomes, categorically stating that Gracias had "not given permission for the use of church premises for religious ceremonies of other religions" and there may have been "some misunderstanding."
However, en route to Rome, Cdl. Gracias responded to Church Militant's request for comment, defending the decision to host iftar meals in churches, since "the iftar meal is a fellowship meal." The cardinal, who is a member of Pope Francis' inner circle of nine consultors, elaborated:


Quote
Inter-religious dialogue is one of the priorities of the Catholic Church, and you are aware that there have been many contacts between the Catholic Church and people of other religions. Pope Francis, on his visit to Abu Dhabi, gave us a good example of how God's kingdom can be spread. All religions should work unitedly for peace.

World-renowned historian Robert Spencer, whose research focuses on Islam, explained to Church Militant that the iftar dinner is a ritual meal loaded with religious significance and that reducing it to a mere fellowship dinner is considered demeaning to Islam. 

Spencer, author of 23 books on the Muslim faith and the Middle East, emphasized: 


Quote
Iftar is not just a meal. It is the breaking of the Ramadan fast every evening. Ramadan is a month devoted to intensifying one's observance of Islam and growing more righteous. In Islam, the most righteous deed of all is jihad, which most prominently involves warfare against — and the subjugation of — non-Muslims. 


The scholar, who published his bestseller The Critical Qur'an: Explained from Key Islamic Commentaries and Contemporary Historical Research  (https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Critical-Quran/Robert-Spencer/9781642939491)this month, warned: 

Quote
Cardinal Gracias, like all those who pursue this chimerical "dialogue," is naive. They're falling for what many Muslims have noted is an instrument of Islamic proselytizing and an attempt to limit criticism of jihad violence and Sharia oppression, rather than a genuine give and take. By participating in iftars, Christians are helping celebrate an imperative to conquer and subjugate them.
For all their iftar meals, Catholic hierarchs and other proponents of "dialogue" have never saved a single Christian from being persecuted or a single church from being destroyed by Islamic jihadis. Cardinal Gracias should ponder that and study why it might be so. But he won't.

While the Mumbai-based parishes of Our Lady of Lourdes (https://www.ourladyoflourdeschurchorlem.com/), Orlem and St. Peter's Church (https://stpetersbandra.com/), Bandra (a Jesuit parish), hosted iftar meals and prayers on church and school property, Holy Cross Church in Nashik invited Muslims into the church to pray and break the Islamic fast.

Jesuit parish priest Fr. Vincy D'Mello joined the Islamic prayers and told the worshippers "they could perform the namaz (Islamic prayer) in the church itself in the direction where there was no deity," Ajmal Khan, secretary of Aims Charitable Trust, said (https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/nashik/nashik-church-opens-doors-for-muslims-to-offer-namaz/articleshow/91016029.cms).
The posture of irreverence to the crucifix and tabernacle triggered widespread mockery (https://twitter.com/ajohar83/status/1517302273093038081?s=20&t=7ADosnPpD14Sg_jyU1ixFw) on social media, with a Hindu tweeting (https://twitter.com/DextrousNinja/status/1517369677458165761?s=20&t=7ADosnPpD14Sg_jyU1ixFw): "Notice how namaz is being done opposite to Jesus." The commenter also used a vulgar word in Hindi for "buttocks," adding that the Muslims were "showing their a**es [to Jesus]." Another commenter posted (https://twitter.com/SaffronJohaar/status/1517423549199577089?s=20&t=7ADosnPpD14Sg_jyU1ixFw), "Not a good gesture, showing bum to cross."
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Fr. Michael Pinto (left) and Fr. Vincy D'Mello (right)

Others claimed that Abrahamic religions were joining to target Hinduism but that once "their common enemy" was vanquished, Muslims would finish off Christians as "happened in Lebanon." A Hindu asked (https://twitter.com/ShwetankSeeks/status/1517302883267801088?s=20&t=7ADosnPpD14Sg_jyU1ixFw), "Why is a Catholic priest offering namaz?" Scores of commenters also said the gesture of liturgical hospitality would never have been reciprocated by Muslims.
A Shariah scholar (who is currently facing the Islamic death penalty for converting to Christianity) examined the video of the Muslim prayer service in Holy Cross Church and said that Arabic recitations were from Sura 1:7 (Al-Fatiha) and Sura 105:1-5 (Al-Fil) of the Qur'an. 
Sura 1:6-7 reads, "Guide us to the straight path, the path of those whom you have favored, not of those who have earned your anger or of those who have gone astray." Islamic exegetes identify "those who have earned Allah's anger" as the Jєωs, and "those who have gone astray" as the Christians.
The scholar also cited Tafsir al-Jalalayn's commentary on verse 7 of the Al-Fatiha Surah, explaining that the Surah pronounces a curse on Jєωs and Christians for rejecting Islam and following a false religion.

According to the classic Qur'anic commentator Ibn Kathir, the two paths "described here are both misguided," and those "two paths are the paths of the Christians and Jєωs — a fact that the believer should beware of so that he avoids them."
Sura Al-Fil refers to the defeat of the Yemeni Christian ruler Abrahah, who led his army of soldiers and elephants into Arabia (A.D. 570), intending to destroy the sacred Ka'bah in Mecca. Allah supposedly sent flocks of birds that struck the Christian invaders with stones.
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Muslims pray on the premises of Our Lady of Lourdes Church
"Both texts are clearly supremacist and speak of Islam as the true religion and Muhammad as the true prophet triumphing over Christianity — a false religion which idolatrously worships the Trinity and blasphemously proclaims Jesus to be God," the scholar noted.
"The first epistle of St. John warns us that the antichrist is the one who denies the Father and the divinity and messiahship of the Son — precisely what Islam does," he said. "And St. John's second epistle asks us not to fellowship with such deniers — precisely what Catholic priests are doing in the name of dialogue."  
Vicar of Our Lady of Lourdes, Fr. Michael Pinto, told local media that "the essence of every religion is to spread peace, unity and harmony." 
Church Militant contacted Fr. Pinto and asked him to justify his theologically reductionist statement, given that each religion has its own specific "salvific" goal and none can be reduced to a United Nations-like organization "spreading peace, unity and harmony." Pinto did not respond to our request for comment as of press time.  
The Vatican's Ecuмenical Directory (http://www.christianunity.va/content/unitacristiani/en/docuмenti/testo-in-inglese.html) (which lays down guidelines for hosting the services of non-Catholic Christian denominations) states that "Catholic churches are consecrated or blessed buildings" which are "generally reserved for Catholic worship." It urges "judicious consideration to be given to the reservation of the Blessed Sacrament" when Protestants are invited into Catholic churches for prayer. 
However, under the Francis pontificate, the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue has encouraged Catholics to join in the Islamic iftar meal on the occasion of the Muslim festival of Ramadan. In a 2020 Ramadan greeting to Muslims, the Vatican dicastery quoted the prophet Isaiah, affirming that "a place of worship of any religion, therefore, is a house of prayer,'" Church Militant reported (https://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/vatican-urges-catholics-to-join-ramadan-feast).



Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: dymphnaw on May 12, 2022, 12:59:05 PM
Why post this now? Ramadan has been over for two weeks. 
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on May 12, 2022, 01:05:33 PM
https://catholicstarherald.org/overlapping-faith-holidays-a-reminder-of-similarities/


“Earlier this month, I was invited to be one of the guest speakers at an Interfaith Iftar gathering at the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community’s Al-Nasr Mosque in Willingboro. Ramadan is a month of prayer, fasting and almsgiving. Iftar dinners celebrate the breaking of the fast, which lasts from sunrise to sunset during Ramadan. Many mosques invite non-Muslims to join them for the breaking of the fast.
The event was one that called together a number of speakers from the wider community, including Rabbi Ben David, senior rabbi at Congregation Adath Emanu-El in Mount Laurel; Rep. Andy Kim and other religious and civic local leaders. We were asked to speak on the subject “Justice through Compassion.” Most of the religious speakers made note that in a rather rare confluence of holidays, Passover, Easter and Ramadan fall around the same time this year. The last time this occurred would have been more than 30 years ago.
All three of the great monotheistic faiths look to the moon for the setting of our holidays at times. While Jєωιѕн and Muslim calendars are based upon the movements of the moon, Christian calendars primarily rely on the movements of the sun. Muslims fit 12 months in 354 days, unlike the Christian or Gregorian calendar, which also has 12 months but 365 days in a year. Therefore, the Islamic cycle of holidays moves across the Gregorian calendar over the course of a good three decades. The Islamic calendar makes no attempt to harmonize with the solar calendar. Therefore, Islamic holidays can and do appear in all different seasons from year to year. The Islamic calendar is purely a lunar calendar and is highly effective at beginning each month with a new moon. Therefore, both Jєωs and Muslims with their lunar calendars share an appreciation of the cycles of the moon. For Jєωs and Muslims, looking at the moon is like looking at a calendar – if it is the full moon, it is always the 15th of the month.
The Jєωιѕн holiday of Passover and the Easter date for most Western Christian Churches always occur quite close together, sometime early in the spring. However, they do not always fall on the same days each year. This year, Passover began April 15, Good Friday, and the Christian Holy Week, which began April 10 on Palm Sunday climaxed from Holy Thursday evening on April 14 to Easter Sunday.
The difference is because the Gregorian calendar dates Easter Sunday, since the year 325 AD at the great Council of Nicaea, to the first Sunday following the Vernal Equinox. Jєωs fix Passover on their calendar, which can fall on any day of the week. Jєωιѕн calendars are strictly lunisolar, and the Christian calendar is solar and makes no attempt to harmonize with the lunar calendar. Hebrew months always begin with the new moon, and their holidays always occur in a prescribed season. Passover is always in the spring, Rosh Hashana always in the fall and Hanukkah is always in the winter. Both Jєωs and Christians fix their calendars from both the lunar and solar movements to fall in prescribed seasons. In the winter, while Christians celebrate Christmas, Jєωs celebrate Hanukkah. In the spring, when Christians celebrate Easter, Jєωs celebrate Passover.
Given this rare confluence of holidays this year, many of the speakers at the mosque made note – including myself – of how these holidays have some overlapping themes. Certainly for Christians and Muslims, the overlapping of Lent and Ramadan speak of two penitential seasons, which share the themes of prayer, fasting and almsgiving. Jєωs and Christians share the themes of moving by God’s grace from slavery in Egypt for the Jєω and slavery to sin for the Christian to the freedom of the promised land for the Jєω to the promise of a restored Paradise through the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.
May these overlapping holidays remind us of the patrimony that we share as spiritual sons and daughters of Abraham, called to respect one another, and to look for the similarities rather than the differences of our celebrations of God’s love for us all. Let us pray for peace in our world. Peace in Ukraine, and peace among Jєωs and Muslims in the Holy Land of Israel. Chag Pesach sameach, Happy Passover, Ramadan Mubarak, Blessed Ramadan, Happy and Blessed Easter!
Father Joseph D. Wallace is diocesan director of Ecuмenical and Inter-religious Affairs and pastor of Christ the Redeemer Parish, Atco.”
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on May 12, 2022, 01:08:34 PM
Why post this now? Ramadan has been over for two weeks.
Don’t shoot the messenger.  Whose side are you on? God’s or fake god?
it’s a disgrace that heretics were hosted at a Catholic Church.  
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: epiphany on May 12, 2022, 01:11:54 PM
Why post this now? Ramadan has been over for two weeks.
Sometimes data takes a while to get online...
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: epiphany on May 12, 2022, 01:13:38 PM
Another in spain:

This medieval Catholic church in Spain hosts iftar meals during Ramadan 

Many of Spain’s 2 million Muslims are celebrating iftar, the traditional dinner at nightfall during Ramadan, alone. But Barcelona's Santa Anna Church has opened its courtyard for the nightly meal to keep the festive tradition alive.

More:
https://theworld.org/stories/2021-05-06/medieval-catholic-church-spain-hosts-iftar-meals-during-ramadan
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: epiphany on May 12, 2022, 01:14:55 PM
Another in the black sea:

https://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/church-in-samsun-hosts-iftar-dinner-173206
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on May 12, 2022, 01:19:23 PM
One can’t get a priest to visit the sick or dying but they make time to host heretics. They eat and drink with heretics in our Churches.    May our novus Ordo friend who recently died Rest In Peace.

They are getting ready for the one world religion of all religions are equal and gutted instead of Jesus Christ is King of the Universe. 
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: epiphany on May 12, 2022, 01:21:51 PM
St. Thomas Moore in Austin, tx:

Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: epiphany on May 12, 2022, 01:25:36 PM
Chicago (not in a catholic church):

https://www.archchicago.org/news-release/-/article/2022/04/05/archdiocese-of-chicago-will-join-with-the-muslim-community-to-mark-the-breaking-of-the-ramadan-fast-at-the-23rd-annual-muslim-catholic-iftar-on-tues-a
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: Integralism1234 on May 12, 2022, 01:25:53 PM
edit
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on May 12, 2022, 01:26:47 PM
I just found a 1919 book called the Magnificat. It mentions Islam.  I’ll have to read it again. Having dinner and praying with heretics is never a good thing. Chicago has a history of devil worship.  Sedar and Ramadan dinners aren’t for me especially during Easter. 
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: epiphany on May 12, 2022, 01:30:51 PM
Bangladesh

"Eight Catholic dioceses arrange one-day iftar parties attended by Islamic clerics and social and political leaders, the priest said."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ucanews.com/amp/ramadan-unites-muslims-and-christians-in-bangladesh/96898
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: Minnesota on May 12, 2022, 01:34:39 PM
A lot of Muslims want nothing to do with it. Many of them decry the interfaith stuff as much as some Christians.
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: Miseremini on May 12, 2022, 01:35:25 PM
St. Thomas Moore in Austin, tx:
And this took place on Apr. 13, Spy Wednesday, during Holy Week, the holiest week in Christendom, and they were going to enjoy a delicious meal!?!?!?!?

Why not just spit in Christ's Holy Face.
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: Miseremini on May 12, 2022, 01:43:49 PM
If I sent 30 pieces of silver (silver coloured nickels=$1.50) to every priest who instituted these sacriligious abominations I'd now be talking about hundreds of dollars.

Individual parishioners of these churches might think about this practice, it might get the message across better than letters etc.

Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: Miseremini on May 12, 2022, 01:44:39 PM
These churches need to be exorcised and re-consecrated.
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: epiphany on May 12, 2022, 01:54:27 PM
St. Matthew's in CA

https://www.stmatthewcorona.org/photos/view/id/71162
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on May 12, 2022, 02:03:32 PM
These churches need to be exorcised and re-consecrated.
You are right. 
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: epiphany on May 12, 2022, 02:05:07 PM
In Los Angeles:

https://religionnews.com/2021/05/12/muslims-and-catholics-in-orange-county-unite-for-eid-al-fitr-prayers/
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: epiphany on May 12, 2022, 02:38:14 PM
In pakistan:

https://youtu.be/OyDsvBK9BKw
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: epiphany on May 12, 2022, 02:39:42 PM
In Delhi:

https://english.madhyamam.com/delhi-archbishop-hosts-iftar-in-solidarity-with-muslims
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: epiphany on May 12, 2022, 02:47:16 PM
In Mumbai:

https://www.ucanews.com/news/indian-parish-hosts-interfaith-iftar-for-peace-and-fraternity/97127
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: epiphany on May 12, 2022, 03:15:59 PM
Jakarta:

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2019/06/06/eid-prayers-in-churchyard-show-religious-harmony-in-east-java.html
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: Cera on May 12, 2022, 05:15:24 PM
One can’t get a priest to visit the sick or dying but they make time to host heretics. They eat and drink with heretics in our Churches.    May our novus Ordo friend who recently died Rest In Peace.

They are getting ready for the one world religion of all religions are equal and gutted instead of Jesus Christ is King of the Universe.
And those of us who do not agree to this lie will be persecuted.
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: SimpleMan on May 12, 2022, 05:30:25 PM
Putting the most favorable, "benefit of the doubt" cast on it possible, it may have simply been that Mecca was in the opposite direction of the crucifix, and the Muslims were just praying as they would under any other circuмstances, viz. facing Mecca.

The crucifix could have been either moved, or if that were not possible, had a shroud put over it while the Muslims were having their prayer.

Note well that I am not suggesting it was acceptable to host the religious observance of another sect, least of all a non-Christian one.  (Nor am I suggesting that moving or covering the crucifix would be a good thing, instead of just a "lesser evil".)  I am just wondering if the sacrilege --- sticking up one's dupa to Almighty God --- was entirely inadvertent and unintentional, and, as I said, prompted only by the way Muslims pray.
Title: Re: PRIESTS CONVENE RAMADAN PRAYER IN CHURCHES
Post by: Minnesota on May 12, 2022, 05:34:45 PM
Jakarta:

https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2019/06/06/eid-prayers-in-churchyard-show-religious-harmony-in-east-java.html
Well, what did you expect with the churches in Pakistan and Indonesia? Both of them are tiny Christian minorities in overwhelmingly 90%+ Muslim countries in the most important month of the Muslim calendar. They've probably done this before, if we're being honest.