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Author Topic: Praying for the damned increases their suffering?  (Read 2363 times)

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Offline Gray2023

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Re: Praying for the damned increases their suffering?
« Reply #65 on: Yesterday at 09:00:11 AM »
:facepalm:. Gray, vatican 2 contradicts Catholic teaching. These fallible saints contradict the Popes on this thread topic. It's not that Popes can do no wrong, but rather following the proper order of authority.
Yes there is a proper order of authority.  Does it hurt you to pray for souls who are damned?  Does it hurt you not to pray for souls in purgatory?  It doesn't do anything to you. So why did the Popes say it?  

Are all Popes theologians?  No, so if a Pope decides not to seek counsel and makes a mistake, whose fault is it?

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Praying for the damned increases their suffering?
« Reply #66 on: Yesterday at 05:18:55 PM »
Yes there is a proper order of authority.  Does it hurt you to pray for souls who are damned?  Does it hurt you not to pray for souls in purgatory?  It doesn't do anything to you. So why did the Popes say it? 

Are all Popes theologians?  No, so if a Pope decides not to seek counsel and makes a mistake, whose fault is it?

Please stop.  While not all Popes are theologian, they're more theologian that you are.

And, yes, it does hurt everyone to pray for those who died outside the Church.  As for who's damned, who's in Purgatory ... we can't absolutely know.  Even those who die outside the Church are presumed damned, since it's hypothetically possible they received some last minute interior illumination.

As these "non-theologian" Popes have taught, where it hurts you and everybody else is in instilling an attitude of religious indifferentism and undermining belief in the dogma that there's no salvation outside the Church.

How many times can we hear Trads say "We're praying for Queen Elizabeth." before ... people start to get the impression that there's a reasonable chance that she was saved.  If some notorious public heretic can be prayed for, which implies that she could have been saved, then what does EENS mean anyway?  Not much.

There's no "mistake" here, but these popes realized the danger in it and therefore banned the practice.  There wasn't even any particular theological statement they were making, just that they rightly judged that such an attitude leads to religious indifferntism.

If the presumption is mistaken, and they don't get our prayers when they actually somehow made it into Purgatory, then so what?  That might be the punishment God wills for having remained outside the Church for nearly their entire lives.

Just admit it ... this has absolutely nothing to do with wanting to hasten their release from Purgatory, but are really just statements that you have hope of their salvation, both to falsely console others and also as an expression of your doubt that there's no salvation outside the Church.

If I were the Pope, before I would even definitively settle the theological dispute, I would absolutely ban any and all mention of so-called "Baptism of Desire" or similar concepts among Catholics, since they serve absolutely no purpose other than to undermine the Catholic faith.  If those who don't believe in it are wrong, then their non-believe would not prevent God from saving souls in this manner.  If those who believe in it are wrong, they could be causing the loss of souls, since people might get complacent in thinking that Batism isn't necessary and, ironically, may therefore not desire it as ardently as would be necessary in order to be saved.


Re: Praying for the damned increases their suffering?
« Reply #67 on: Yesterday at 11:48:05 PM »
Is this a real quote? If so, do you think the Saint would change her opinion if shown the quotes by the Popes?
More important question: Is Bro. Peter Dimond a real saint, or even a real Catholic? If so, do you think the non-Saint would change his opinion if shown these quotes from Saints? The Holy Spirit guides us through His Saints. Dimond is not a saint and should learn from the Saints. But do you think he will? Lol, probably not. Since when has Dimond ever said, to his fan-followers, "you know what, I'm really sorry, we all make mistakes, I was mistaken on this one. e.g Pope John Paul II was NOT the Anti-Christ etc". He really should learn contrition and humility and it will be good for him. 

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: Praying for the damned increases their suffering?
« Reply #68 on: Today at 12:32:58 AM »
More important question: Is Bro. Peter Dimond a real saint, or even a real Catholic? If so, do you think the non-Saint would change his opinion if shown these quotes from Saints? The Holy Spirit guides us through His Saints. Dimond is not a saint and should learn from the Saints. But do you think he will? Lol, probably not. Since when has Dimond ever said, to his fan-followers, "you know what, I'm really sorry, we all make mistakes, I was mistaken on this one. e.g Pope John Paul II was NOT the Anti-Christ etc". He really should learn contrition and humility and it will be good for him.

What is this nonsensical babble?  We're talking about several Popes who condemned even "private" prayers for deceased non-Catholics, and the Holy Spirit guides the Church primarily through Popes and their Magisterium, not through some saints.  You bounce from one heresy to another.

Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: Praying for the damned increases their suffering?
« Reply #69 on: Today at 12:46:26 AM »
More important question: Is Bro. Peter Dimond a real saint, or even a real Catholic? If so, do you think the non-Saint would change his opinion if shown these quotes from Saints? The Holy Spirit guides us through His Saints. Dimond is not a saint and should learn from the Saints. But do you think he will? Lol, probably not. Since when has Dimond ever said, to his fan-followers, "you know what, I'm really sorry, we all make mistakes, I was mistaken on this one. e.g Pope John Paul II was NOT the Anti-Christ etc". He really should learn contrition and humility and it will be good for him.
Why do you attack the Dimonds when they are presenting the teaching of POPES. It's not like the Dimonds made these quotes up, they are showing Catholic doctrine. Very strange that you and others do this, although not too strange in your case since you go to the indult.