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Author Topic: Possible Roman scheme against the SSPX  (Read 18569 times)

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Possible Roman scheme against the SSPX
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2011, 09:17:01 AM »
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It is correct that Williamson is an atypical case in that he was, when you think about, never Catholic in the proper sense. He was an Anglican and then went over directly to Lefebvre. This means that he has never lived in the great Church, that he has never lived with the Pope.


This is factually incorrect. BW converted to Catholicism before he was ever in the SSPX.

By the way, is this the same book where BXVI says that a gαy prostitute using a condom is a first step towards moral responsibility?

Possible Roman scheme against the SSPX
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2011, 10:36:17 AM »
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It is correct that Williamson is an atypical case in that he was, when you think about, never Catholic in the proper sense. He was an Anglican and then went over directly to Lefebvre. This means that he has never lived in the great Church, that he has never lived with the Pope.


If he meant that he was never a priest, "in the prorper sense" that he's speaking about. I would it is much worse to be a "Catholic [priest]... in the great Church.. with the Pope," and to have abandoned the Papacy from within.


Possible Roman scheme against the SSPX
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2011, 10:39:46 AM »
Quote from: stevusmagnus
Quote
It is correct that Williamson is an atypical case in that he was, when you think about, never Catholic in the proper sense. He was an Anglican and then went over directly to Lefebvre. This means that he has never lived in the great Church, that he has never lived with the Pope.


This is factually incorrect. BW converted to Catholicism before he was ever in the SSPX.

By the way, is this the same book where BXVI says that a gαy prostitute using a condom is a first step towards moral responsibility?


Thanks for the clarification!  :farmer:

Offline Matthew

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Possible Roman scheme against the SSPX
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2011, 10:47:11 AM »
I should point out that there ARE different legitimate opinions in this Crisis, even within the SSPX.

Some are more inclined to make a deal with Rome at all costs, thinking that the dropping of the "pariah" status might make for more converts.

Others, perhaps more "big picture" oriented, who see the modern world as a whole and see how the whole package takes men away from true integral Catholicism, believe that we're not going to convert any significant number until there's a chastisement.

Let's put it this way -- right now, ANYONE is welcome to run the gauntlet and join a Traditional Catholic chapel, for purposes of this discussion let's say an SSPX chapel.
They realize they're different, that many don't agree, and that the Powers That Be are very much against them.

Isn't that the attitude that we should all have with the World anyhow -- a prerequisite for properly opposing it? We all have to be willing to stand out, be scorned, be misunderstood, etc. if we want to live an integrally Catholic life in this modern world.

So if the SSPX became approved, you'd remove the prerequisite of "willing to be different" from going to Mass, but NOT from being a good Catholic in the world today. The prerequisite would still hold on the World side of things.

There are only so many people who are that strong.

Maybe this is why Indult Catholics are often very worldly and seldom "integral" in their practice of Catholicism? "Willingness to stand up against opposition" is not required for membership there, so statistically you'll only have a couple members at the Church who HAPPEN to be willing to thus stand out.

But at an SSPX chapel, they ALL have to be willing to stand out, be criticized unjustly, etc.

Now even if Rome "converted" tomorrow and every local Catholic Church became as authentically Catholic as an SSPX chapel -- would we have any more serious Catholics? Sure, we'd have some -- whoever in the Novus Ordo is opposing the world and living a Catholic life to rival any traditional Catholic today. But how many of those are there, REALLY?

We'd all STILL have to oppose the world, and let's not forget that the SSPX (whose position is true Catholicism) preaches a very HARD religion -- one that most men reject due to malice and/or weakness.

Perhaps the World would know the jig is up and start persecuting Catholics if the Catholic Church turned into a super-sized SSPX. That's why I say a chastisement is ultimately necessary. The world is just TOO far gone at this point.

Possible Roman scheme against the SSPX
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2011, 10:47:47 AM »
http://www.sspx.org/news/enlightenment_pope/enlightenment_pope-notes_on_benedict_xvi_recent_book-fr_nicolas_portail.htm

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...And that is not all. To finish washing his hands of this episcopal “h0Ɩ0cαųst-denier”, the pope explains that “Williamson is an atypical case, in that he was… never Catholic in the proper sense. He was an Anglican and then went over directly to Lefebvre” (pp. 121-122). Benedict XVI is rewriting history.
 
In fact, Richard Williamson renounced Anglicanism and applied to St. Pius X Seminary in Econe, which at that time was quite thoroughly recognized and encouraged by the Roman Congregations. He made his first promise on December 8, 1973, more than two years before the (illegal) suppression of the Priestly Society of St. Pius X. To anyone who is trying to be objective, these three pages in Light of the World are at most conjectural and, alas, unfair. One would think that the pope was better informed than that about Traditionalism...