Author Topic: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics (Read 625 times)

AnthonyPadua · « **Reply #10 on:** **Yesterday** at 05:40:58 PM »

Quote from: Lazarus on Yesterday at 03:52:43 PM

I think your reasoning lacks flexibility.

It is possible they had perfect contrition of their sins before their death, despite outwardly being outside of the Church. So, a conditional prayer "If X is in Purgatory" cannot be sinful. The worst that can happen is that the prayer is useless.

This isn't Catholic doctrine. Catholics presume those who die outside the Church are lost unless there is an EXTERNAL reason to believe otherwise. Perfect contrition only works for those baptised. Your statement is entirely emotional is part of the problem these and other Popes warned about, that praying for deceased non-Catholics weakens the faith and EENS and promotes religious indifferentism.

You should re-read the quotes and humble yourself in obedience to God's authority on this earth.

Lazarus · « **Reply #11 on:** **Yesterday** at 07:16:14 PM »

Quote from: AnthonyPadua on Yesterday at 05:40:58 PM

This isn't Catholic doctrine. Catholics presume those who die outside the Church are lost unless there is an EXTERNAL reason to believe otherwise. Perfect contrition only works for those baptised. Your statement is entirely emotional is part of the problem these and other Popes warned about, that praying for deceased non-Catholics weakens the faith and EENS and promotes religious indifferentism.

You should re-read the quotes and humble yourself in obedience to God's authority on this earth.

I think there is a misunderstanding between us.

You seem to think of me as some sort of sentimentalist. Let me tell you, the perspective that most humans end up in hell does not disturb me in the slightest. God bestowed a duty upon us and those who disregard the duty that comes from His holy sacrifice, are rightly damned.

Secondly, you are making a mistake in how you interpret Papal instructions. There is a difference between public prayers and private prayers. Of course, the Popes instructed that there should never be public masses for known heretics who never showed signs of repentance before their death. Of course, it could cause indifferentism and weaken the faith of others, if such scandalous actions were to happen. However, I am making a theological point, not a disciplinary one.

Thirdly, considering the abominable state of most of society, it takes a strong will to be able to consciously refuse such a state of matters and to instead be a Catholic. I am quite sure that, the Catholics of today, are far stronger than you think.

The reason I make those conditional prayers, is that the pain of those in Purgatory is inimaginable. 1 minute in Purgatory is worse than a lifetime of suffering. I am certain that, there are many people who seemed to be unrepentant evildoers, that were saved. There are countless souls who are currently in Purgatory and that were forgotten by their friends or their families, or who were sometimes completely alone during their life.
Shouldn't I pray for their sakes as well, so that they enjoy heaven sooner?

It is our duty, as Catholics, to help those in Purgatory join Christ sooner.

Seraphina · « **Reply #12 on:** **Yesterday** at 07:33:53 PM »

So, we are supposed to judge the heart of the deceased? I always pray to Our Lady. If the person is lost, She will redirect the prayer to whom she sees fit. No prayer goes to waste. There are just some people whose condition at death you do not know.
Unless you are the strictest of Feeneyites and a staunch Jansenist, you don’t know for sure the person was a validly, practicing Catholic in the state of grace, don’t bother praying for them? Is it not better to err on the side of mercy rather than judgment?

Maria Dolorosa · « **Reply #13 on:** **Yesterday** at 07:44:39 PM »

As Catholics, we are only duty bound to pray for souls in particular, according to how the person died externally as AP said. The Church only gives a funeral with a requiem Mass for one who died a Catholic death, not for everyone who *may* have converted, and this is a big *may*. There is a reason for this.

The point is, is that praying for every soul who *may* have converted in the end, fosters religious indifferentism, because we begin to think that people can live how they please, and expect a special grace of conversion at the last moment. We begin to forget that a death bed conversion is an extremely rare grace, not a common one.

There is a famous, traditional Catholic phrase in Latin: LEX ORANDI, LEX CREDENDI. "The law of prayer is the law of belief."

The Popes have spoken.

Incredulous · « **Reply #14 on:** **Yesterday** at 08:45:05 PM »

I think adding the condition in our prayers, "For the soul in Purgatory" is logical.
In the Divine economy, those prayers are not wasted.

And as Seraphina noted, we can't really judge the disposition of a soul, seemingly lost.

Can't remember the source, but read a Saintly quote that prayers for a soul in Hell only intensifies their suffering.

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Author Topic: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics (Read 625 times)

AnthonyPadua

Re: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics

Lazarus

Re: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics

Seraphina

Re: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics

Maria Dolorosa

Re: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics

Incredulous

Re: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics