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Author Topic: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics  (Read 4765 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2026, 11:51:06 PM »
Quote from: Lazarus on March 10, 2026, 08:50:00 PM
The Orthodox way of praying for the deceased is to do a conditional prayer. "If X is in Purgatory, please deliver X".

While public prayers for heretics are banned, private prayers are not, as long as they are conditional.

If X is in heaven, or in hell, praying for them is useless. Prayers are only useful for someone in Purgatory. Since it's almost impossible to know if someone is in Purgatory or not, it's better that all prayers for deceased people should be conditional.
The quotes in the OP also cover private prayer. Those who died outside the Church are not in purgatory, they are considered lost.
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Offline Mr G

Re: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics
« Reply #6 on: March 11, 2026, 07:59:12 AM »
Quote from: IndultCat on March 10, 2026, 07:20:33 PM
What on earth is a "decreased" non-Catholic? Are these elderly non-Catholics who have shrunken with age? :smirk:
A "decreased non-Catholic" is any non-Catholic with bone loss.;)
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Offline Godefroy

Re: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2026, 05:04:02 PM »
Quote from: Mr G on March 11, 2026, 07:59:12 AM
A "decreased non-Catholic" is any non-Catholic with bone loss.;)
It reminds of when someone visited the grave of Ludwig van Beethoven and heard, with some astonishment, the 9th symphony, but being played backwards. And more strangely, the sound was actually coming from the grave.  

It's only when the cemetery gardener explained to the visitor that Beethoven was decomposing, that he understood what was going on. 
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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2026, 05:40:58 PM »
Quote from: Lazarus on March 12, 2026, 03:52:43 PM
I think your reasoning lacks flexibility.

It is possible they had perfect contrition of their sins before their death, despite outwardly being outside of the Church. So, a conditional prayer "If X is in Purgatory" cannot be sinful. The worst that can happen is that the prayer is useless.
This isn't Catholic doctrine. Catholics presume those who die outside the Church are lost unless there is an EXTERNAL reason to believe otherwise. Perfect contrition only works for those baptised. Your statement is entirely emotional is part of the problem these and other Popes warned about, that praying for deceased non-Catholics weakens the faith and EENS and promotes religious indifferentism.

You should re-read the quotes and humble yourself in obedience to God's authority on this earth.
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Offline Seraphina

Re: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2026, 07:33:53 PM »
So, we are supposed to judge the heart of the deceased?  I always pray to Our Lady. If the person is lost, She will redirect the prayer to whom she sees fit. No prayer goes to waste. There are just some people whose condition at death you do not know. 
Unless you are the strictest of Feeneyites and a staunch Jansenist, you don’t know for sure the person was a validly, practicing Catholic in the state of grace, don’t bother praying for them?  Is it not better to err on the side of mercy rather than judgment?  
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