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Author Topic: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics  (Read 117 times)

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Offline AnthonyPadua

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Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics
« on: Today at 05:01:38 PM »
I've seen many people cope and say you can pray for dead non-catholics privately because God can consider your prayers outside of time before they died, however many Popes say we are not to pray for them. Should we not obey the Popes/Church?


Quote
Pope st gregory the great

On praying for dead non catholics

they say, And where then is their saintship, if they will not pray for their enemies, whom they will then see burning, though it is expressly said to them, Pray for your enemies? [Matt. 5, 44] But we reply at once

They pray for their enemies at that time when they are able to convert their hearts to fruitful penitence, and save them by this very conversion. For what else must we pray for our enemies, except that which the Apostle says, That God may give them repentance, and that they may recover themselves from the snares of the devil, by whom they are held captive unto his will? [2 Tim. 2, 25. 26.] And how will prayers be made at that time for them, when they can no longer be in any degree turned from iniquity to works of righteousness? There is, therefore, the same reason for not praying then for men condemned to eternal fire, as there is now for not praying for the devil and his angels who have been consigned to eternal punishment And this is now the reason for holy men not praying for unbelieving and ungodly men who are dead for they are unwilling that the merit of their prayer should be set aside, in that presence of the righteous Judge, when in behalf of those whom they know to be already consigned to eternal punishment

https://www.lectionarycentral.com/GregoryMoralia/Book34.html

Source for quote by Pope Nicolas 
https://sourcebooks.web.fordham.edu/basis/866nicholas-bulgar.asp

Re: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics
« Reply #1 on: Today at 05:39:09 PM »
I pray for my Nanny every time I smoke, along with my free will, she got me started. She was not good in this life but I pray God has mercy on her. 


Re: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics
« Reply #2 on: Today at 06:01:36 PM »
I've seen many people cope and say you can pray for dead non-catholics privately because God can consider your prayers outside of time before they died, however many Popes say we are not to pray for them. Should we not obey the Popes/Church?


Source for quote by Pope Nicolas
https://sourcebooks.web.fordham.edu/basis/866nicholas-bulgar.asp
Thank you for sharing this important information. I never understood the argument of praying for a non-Catholic after they died, since God, being outside of time, could accept our prayers on their behalf, beforehand. Practically speaking, the moral results of religious indifferentism in our own souls will be the same regardless, which is what the Church is warning us about in these teachings you have shared.

The reality is, is that the dead person who is being prayed for has already been judged and given their sentence, so our prayers will not change anything. I think the Church would have mentioned the ability to do this, if it was morally acceptable.

Yes, we should obey the Popes and the Church, and not our feelings as most people do today.

This high esteem for personal sentiment is that "vital immanence" which Pope St. Pius X spoke of in Pascendi; modernists have created this concept, and it consists in obeying our own feelings and thoughts over that of God's teachings. It is the deification of man. 

Modernists assent to dogmas, because of their feeling for them, not because they were revealed by God and are deserving of our submission. This is why they simultaneously assent to heresies, because of their feeling for certain errors also. Bishop Williamson did a really great series of conferences on modernism, it truly brings many things to light. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IMv2jide2g

Offline AnthonyPadua

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Re: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics
« Reply #3 on: Today at 07:16:21 PM »
I pray for my Nanny every time I smoke, along with my free will, she got me started. She was not good in this life but I pray God has mercy on her.
Is she alive? Catholics ought to obey the Pope/Church.

Pope St. Pius X, Address to the Priests of the Apostolic Union, Nov. 18, 1912
"And this is why, when we love the Pope, we do not dispute whether he commands or requires a thing, or seek to know where the strict obligation of obedience lies, or in what matter we must obey; when we love the Pope we do not say that he has not yet spoken clearly — as if he were required to speak his will in every man’s ear, and to utter it not only by word of mouth but in letters and other public docuмents as well. Nor do we cast doubt on his orders, alleging the pretext which comes easily to the man who does not want to obey, that it is not the Pope who is commanding, but someone in his entourage. We do not limit the field in which he can and ought to exercise his authority; we do not oppose to the Pope’s authority that of other persons — no matter how learned — who differ from the Pope. For whatever may be their learning, they are not holy, for where there is holiness there cannot be disagreement with the Pope."
Pope St. Pius X, Address Con Vera Soddisfazione, May 10, 1909:
"Do not let yourselves be deceived by the subtle declarations of others who do not cease to pretend that they wish to be with the Church, to love the Church...Judge these men according to their works. If they maltreat and despise the ministers of the Church and even the Pope; if they try by every means to minimize their authority, to evade their direction, and to disregard their counsels; if they do not fear to raise the standard of rebellion, what Church are these men speaking about?"
Pope Gregory XVI, Encyclical Mirari Vos:
…[T]he discipline sanctioned by the Church must never be rejected or be branded as contrary to certain principles of natural law. It must never be called crippled, or imperfect or subject to civil authority. In this discipline the administration of sacred rites, standards of morality, and the reckoning of the rights of the Church and her ministers are embraced.
Pope Leo XIII, Apostolic Letter Est Sane Molestum:
But obedience must not limit itself to matters which touch the faith: its sphere is much more vast: it extends to all matters which the episcopal power embraces. For the Christian people, the bishops are not only the teachers of the faith, they are placed at their head to rule and govern them; they are responsible for the salvation of the souls whom God has entrusted to them, and of which they will one day have to render an account. It is for this reason that the Apostle St. Paul addresses this exhortation to Christians: “Obey your prelates, and be subject to them. For they watch as having to render an account of your souls” [Heb. 13:17].

Re: Popes against praying for decreased non-catholics
« Reply #4 on: Today at 07:20:33 PM »
What on earth is a "decreased" non-Catholic? Are these elderly non-Catholics who have shrunken with age? :smirk: