Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => Crisis in the Church => Topic started by: umblehay anmay on September 12, 2014, 09:16:08 PM
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http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2014/09/12/Pope-to-marry-couples-living-in-sin/1161410544188/
Fun stuff
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They, and their "Pope", can all burn in eternal Hell together.
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As much as this wouldn't surprise me, something about this report seems...off.
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As much as this wouldn't surprise me, something about this report seems...off.
Sorry to report that my local newspaper, upi and the Telegraph all carry the same story.
Here come the brides.... :cry:
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How do we know whether these couples have not gone to confession first?
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Take note of the heretic's own words:
In an interview last September, the Jesuit Pope said the Church must move away from its "obsession" with condemning ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, abortion and contraception. It should become kinder and more merciful or risk collapsing "like a house of cards".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/the-pope/11092718/Pope-Francis-to-marry-couples-living-in-sin-in-first-for-his-papacy.html
For Francis, the Catholic Church is not "one and the same thing" with the Body of Jesus Christ, His Immaculate Bride, but simply a man-made institution, a meme, who will lose relevance in today's world if it does not adapt itself (herself) and its (her) teachings to the atheistic, materialistic world.
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Take note of the heretic's own words:
In an interview last September, the Jesuit Pope said the Church must move away from its "obsession" with condemning ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, abortion and contraception. It should become kinder and more merciful or risk collapsing "like a house of cards".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/the-pope/11092718/Pope-Francis-to-marry-couples-living-in-sin-in-first-for-his-papacy.html
For Francis, the Catholic Church is not "one and the same thing" with the Body of Jesus Christ, His Immaculate Bride, but simply a man-made institution, a meme, who will lose relevance in today's world if it does not adapt itself (herself) and its (her) teachings to the atheistic, materialistic world.
One can already hear the "sick Father" analogies coming from the R&R pulpits..........
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I get that. These couple may have been "living in sin", but I'm not seeing evidence that they did not confess prior to getting married.
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From what I read of the article, this doesn't seem to me like major news, in light of all the other novus ordo shenanigans. The Church has always wanted to regularize couple that were living in sinful arrangements. I think if there is anything novel or unseemly here, it would be the fact that the conciliar church is making a big 'show' of this. As I understand it, the Church always conducted these kinds of ceremonies privately, to safeguard the beauty of the Sacrament of marriage and to avoid causing scandal. Which is apparently the farthest thing from Bergoglio's mind. :/
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From what I read of the article, this doesn't seem to me like major news, in light of all the other novus ordo shenanigans. The Church has always wanted to regularize couple that were living in sinful arrangements. I think if there is anything novel or unseemly here, it would be the fact that the conciliar church is making a big 'show' of this. As I understand it, the Church always conducted these kinds of ceremonies privately, to safeguard the beauty of the Sacrament of marriage and to avoid causing scandal. Which is apparently the farthest thing from Bergoglio's mind. :/
Again, I'm not seeing this as some approval of sinful living arrangements. However, in considering your bolded point, I do think this may be their way of "proving" that they are only for opposite sex marriages.
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For Francis, the Catholic Church is not "one and the same thing" with the Body of Jesus Christ, His Immaculate Bride, but simply a man-made institution, a meme, who will lose relevance in today's world if it does not adapt itself (herself) and its (her) teachings to the atheistic, materialistic world.
This is such an excellent simple summary. I'm tempted to use it as my email autosignature!
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From what I read of the article, this doesn't seem to me like major news, in light of all the other novus ordo shenanigans. The Church has always wanted to regularize couple that were living in sinful arrangements. I think if there is anything novel or unseemly here, it would be the fact that the conciliar church is making a big 'show' of this. As I understand it, the Church always conducted these kinds of ceremonies privately, to safeguard the beauty of the Sacrament of marriage and to avoid causing scandal. Which is apparently the farthest thing from Bergoglio's mind. :/
Again, I'm not seeing this as some approval of sinful living arrangements. However, in considering your bolded point, I do think this may be their way of "proving" that they are only for opposite sex marriages.
This week, perhaps next week Bergoglio will 'marry' 20 sodomite couples...
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Since Francis failed to mention confession, this appears to be a warm up for the synod.
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Since Francis failed to mention confession, this appears to be a warm up for the synod.
It's like amnesty. You're all forgiven for transgressing the law, even though you aren't sorry and do not seek forgiveness.
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Group absolutions are already common in the NO, but I'm not jumping on board this being newsworthy until they spell out exactly how these couples are going to be handled by the Church. If you presume the best, this is good news; if you presume the worst, it's bad news. Something for everyone if they simply don't say???
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How do we know whether these couples have not gone to confession first?
If these couples have been to confession first they would abandon their "cohabiting" sin, doing public penance since their scandal has become so public.
Just because somebody "goes to confession" nowadays, doesn't imply a firm purpose of amendment nor a determination to avoid the occasions of sin. Without those two attitudes their "confession" is a sacrilege.
Agreed. We don't know the whole story though, do we?
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If they are cohabitating, then they are in a state of sin, and cannot make a valid confession unless they have separated from one another. If Francis were to marry them as they are, then he would be in need of confession for approving of the same sin.
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This sums it up:
The Church has always married people who had previously been living in sin; she has no custom of marrying people who are currently living in sin. And some of these couples are currently living in unrepentant sin, as the press release says they are "already cohabiting"; i.e., they are living together right now. Obviously, nobody has a problem with the Church offering sacraments to single mothers living chastely or people who were once notorious sinners but have repented; to offer them the sacrament while they are persisting in unrepentant sin is another matter entirely.
How do you know they are unrepentant? You don't know their hearts.
In the Catholic Faith, what we do is extremely important. When the people came to St. John the Baptist asking how they could be saved, he told them "Bear fruits that befit repentance" (Luke 3:8). We demonstrate our repentance by our actions. A true conversion, a metanoia, means actively turning away from a sinful lifestyle and embracing holiness. Hence St. John Vianney withheld absolution from a man who had refused to stop dancing in the local saloon and St. Cyprian withheld distribution of alms from certain people unless they gave up attending the Roman spectacles. Can you imagine the scandal today if a priest refused to absolve somebody unless they stopped going to the bar on Fridays or if he refused to feed the poor if they didn't stop going to see R-rated movies? How Pharisaic! Yet these saints knew that a sincere change of heart would invariably be coupled with a change of lifestyle, and if they did not see the "fruits that befit repentance", they presumed there was no repentance and withheld their ministrations. A person who persists in their sin is not repentant; rather, they are like a fool, according to Proverbs: "A dog that returns to its vomit is like a fool who reverts to his folly" (Prov. 26:11).
I know a thief is unrepentant if he keeps stealing; I know a cohabiting couple is unrepentant if they keep cohabiting. Simple as that.
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Let me say this as plainly as possible; in fact, let me be so blunt that I am actually going to resort to using all caps, which I seldom do: COHABITING ITSELF IS SINFUL, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER sɛҳuąƖ ACTIVITY GOES ON.
http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/2014/09/cohabitation-maintaining-sanity.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FPdjXT+%28Unam+Sanctam+Catholicam%29
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How do we know whether these couples have not gone to confession first?
If these couples have been to confession first they would abandon their "cohabiting" sin, doing public penance since their scandal has become so public.
Just because somebody "goes to confession" nowadays, doesn't imply a firm purpose of amendment nor a determination to avoid the occasions of sin. Without those two attitudes their "confession" is a sacrilege.
Agreed. We don't know the whole story though, do we?
We do, because we've seen it played time and time and time again over the last 50 years.
To assume the Vatican apparatus has suddenly underpinned itself with solid Catholic doctrine flies in the face of common sense and our experience.
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So, the real question here is:
"How long, according to the Law of the Church, is a couple required to live separately, after confessing the sin of cohabitation, before they may be licitly married?"
I confess that I do not know the answer to this and cannot find it among my materials. It would help my understanding of what is going on with this Pope if someone could answer this question.
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How do we know whether these couples have not gone to confession first?
If these couples have been to confession first they would abandon their "cohabiting" sin, doing public penance since their scandal has become so public.
Just because somebody "goes to confession" nowadays, doesn't imply a firm purpose of amendment nor a determination to avoid the occasions of sin. Without those two attitudes their "confession" is a sacrilege.
Agreed. We don't know the whole story though, do we?
We do, because we've seen it played time and time and time again over the last 50 years.
To assume the Vatican apparatus has suddenly underpinned itself with solid Catholic doctrine flies in the face of common sense and our experience.
Sorry, even NO doctrine requires confession for these couples prior to marriage.
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How do we know whether these couples have not gone to confession first?
That is part of the preparation for marriage.
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Take note of the heretic's own words:
In an interview last September, the Jesuit Pope said the Church must move away from its "obsession" with condemning ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, abortion and contraception. It should become kinder and more merciful or risk collapsing "like a house of cards".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/the-pope/11092718/Pope-Francis-to-marry-couples-living-in-sin-in-first-for-his-papacy.html
For Francis, the Catholic Church is not "one and the same thing" with the Body of Jesus Christ, His Immaculate Bride, but simply a man-made institution, a meme, who will lose relevance in today's world if it does not adapt itself (herself) and its (her) teachings to the atheistic, materialistic world.
He did not say we should not condemn sin. He was talking about an obsession with certain sins. If all you can say is "ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity! abortion! contraception!" then you are giving a misleading idea of what the Catholic Church is all about.
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From what I read of the article, this doesn't seem to me like major news, in light of all the other novus ordo shenanigans. The Church has always wanted to regularize couple that were living in sinful arrangements. I think if there is anything novel or unseemly here, it would be the fact that the conciliar church is making a big 'show' of this. As I understand it, the Church always conducted these kinds of ceremonies privately, to safeguard the beauty of the Sacrament of marriage and to avoid causing scandal. Which is apparently the farthest thing from Bergoglio's mind. :/
Again, I'm not seeing this as some approval of sinful living arrangements. However, in considering your bolded point, I do think this may be their way of "proving" that they are only for opposite sex marriages.
This week, perhaps next week Bergoglio will 'marry' 20 sodomite couples...
Tha tis not what the Pope is all about.
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Since Francis failed to mention confession, this appears to be a warm up for the synod.
I have been to several wedding swhere the word "confession" was not used during the ceremony.
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Since Francis failed to mention confession, this appears to be a warm up for the synod.
It's like amnesty. You're all forgiven for transgressing the law, even though you aren't sorry and do not seek forgiveness.
The warm up for the synod is that people who are living in sin need to stop living in sin and the Church will help you to stop living in sin. The sacrament of matrimony is for one man and one woman.
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Group absolutions are already common in the NO, but I'm not jumping on board this being newsworthy until they spell out exactly how these couples are going to be handled by the Church. If you presume the best, this is good news; if you presume the worst, it's bad news. Something for everyone if they simply don't say???
No where did they report that there was a group "absolution." Everyone went to confession individually.
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This sums it up:
The Church has always married people who had previously been living in sin; she has no custom of marrying people who are currently living in sin. And some of these couples are currently living in unrepentant sin, as the press release says they are "already cohabiting"; i.e., they are living together right now. Obviously, nobody has a problem with the Church offering sacraments to single mothers living chastely or people who were once notorious sinners but have repented; to offer them the sacrament while they are persisting in unrepentant sin is another matter entirely.
How do you know they are unrepentant? You don't know their hearts.
In the Catholic Faith, what we do is extremely important. When the people came to St. John the Baptist asking how they could be saved, he told them "Bear fruits that befit repentance" (Luke 3:8). We demonstrate our repentance by our actions. A true conversion, a metanoia, means actively turning away from a sinful lifestyle and embracing holiness. Hence St. John Vianney withheld absolution from a man who had refused to stop dancing in the local saloon and St. Cyprian withheld distribution of alms from certain people unless they gave up attending the Roman spectacles. Can you imagine the scandal today if a priest refused to absolve somebody unless they stopped going to the bar on Fridays or if he refused to feed the poor if they didn't stop going to see R-rated movies? How Pharisaic! Yet these saints knew that a sincere change of heart would invariably be coupled with a change of lifestyle, and if they did not see the "fruits that befit repentance", they presumed there was no repentance and withheld their ministrations. A person who persists in their sin is not repentant; rather, they are like a fool, according to Proverbs: "A dog that returns to its vomit is like a fool who reverts to his folly" (Prov. 26:11).
I know a thief is unrepentant if he keeps stealing; I know a cohabiting couple is unrepentant if they keep cohabiting. Simple as that.
....
Let me say this as plainly as possible; in fact, let me be so blunt that I am actually going to resort to using all caps, which I seldom do: COHABITING ITSELF IS SINFUL, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER sɛҳuąƖ ACTIVITY GOES ON.
http://unamsanctamcatholicam.blogspot.com/2014/09/cohabitation-maintaining-sanity.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+blogspot%2FPdjXT+%28Unam+Sanctam+Catholicam%29
I tend to agree. But then why do we complain about them getting married?
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Take note of the heretic's own words:
In an interview last September, the Jesuit Pope said the Church must move away from its "obsession" with condemning ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity, abortion and contraception. It should become kinder and more merciful or risk collapsing "like a house of cards".
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/the-pope/11092718/Pope-Francis-to-marry-couples-living-in-sin-in-first-for-his-papacy.html
For Francis, the Catholic Church is not "one and the same thing" with the Body of Jesus Christ, His Immaculate Bride, but simply a man-made institution, a meme, who will lose relevance in today's world if it does not adapt itself (herself) and its (her) teachings to the atheistic, materialistic world.
He did not say we should not condemn sin. He was talking about an obsession with certain sins. If all you can say is "ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity! abortion! contraception!" then you are giving a misleading idea of what the Catholic Church is all about.
What did Frank the fraud say? TRIVIAL social issues? Of course we can't have people thinking that the Church is all about TRIVIAL social issues.
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What did Frank the fraud say? TRIVIAL social issues? Of course we can't have people thinking that the Church is all about TRIVIAL social issues.
gαy sex is vile, disgusting, and contrary to natural and divine Law, but most important, gαy sex is a mortal sin, one which will (and does) send immortal souls to eternal Hell forever, and ever, and ever.
Such is not trivial.
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They, and their "Pope", can all burn in eternal Hell together.
And I agree and added one more thumbs up for your courage.
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From what I read of the article, this doesn't seem to me like major news, in light of all the other novus ordo shenanigans. The Church has always wanted to regularize couple that were living in sinful arrangements. I think if there is anything novel or unseemly here, it would be the fact that the conciliar church is making a big 'show' of this. As I understand it, the Church always conducted these kinds of ceremonies privately, to safeguard the beauty of the Sacrament of marriage and to avoid causing scandal. Which is apparently the farthest thing from Bergoglio's mind. :/
Again, I'm not seeing this as some approval of sinful living arrangements. However, in considering your bolded point, I do think this may be their way of "proving" that they are only for opposite sex marriages.
This week, perhaps next week Bergoglio will 'marry' 20 sodomite couples...
What is coming out of the Vatican and this so-called bishop of Rome, I
will not exactly fall on my face when it happens.
It will be no surprise to me, because I am use to it since 1963.
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They, and their "Pope", can all burn in eternal Hell together.
And I agree and added one more thumbs up for your courage.
this attitude does not seem to be very charitable.
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They, and their "Pope", can all burn in eternal Hell together.
And I agree and added one more thumbs up for your courage.
this attitude does not seem to be very charitable.
Eternal Hell is not a very "charitable" place; such does not change the fact that people have gone there, are going there, and will go there.
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this attitude does not seem to be very charitable.
What is uncharitable about going to an internet message board and posting that people we have never met and know about only from media reports are likely damned to Hell?
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this attitude does not seem to be very charitable.
What is uncharitable about going to an internet message board and posting that people we have never met and know about only from media reports are likely damned to Hell?
It's like going to an Internet message and saying that Pol Pot, whom none of us ever met, was a decent guy, and that it would be "uncharitable" to suggest that he has been damned to eternal Hell?
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How about the story of when Jesus was dining with the Pharasee. A woman who was knowb as a sinner came in and annointed his feet with perfume and dried them with her tears. Jesus said that because of her love her sins, though many were forgiven.
Here we have a group of couples, who for various reasons were living in sin. They respond positivly to the overtures of the Church and renounce the sin that they were living under by going through the necessary preparations and get married.
Jesus said that there is greater joy in heaven in the repentance of one sinner than in the ninety nine others who have no need of repentance.