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Offline Santo Subito

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Pope St. Pius X on Obedience to the Pope
« on: November 22, 2012, 08:31:08 PM »
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  • How do Society faithful get around this teaching of Pius X himself?

    http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2012/11/love-pope-no-ifs-and-no-buts-for.html

    "Love the Pope!" - no ifs, and no buts:
    For Bishops, priests, and faithful, Saint Pius X explains what loving the Pope really entails



    The struggle against Modernism had taken a great toll on Pope Saint Pius X as he spoke 100 years ago, in November 1912, to the members of the Apostolic Union of Clergy, a confraternity of secular priests in union with the Holy See. He knew that despite every effort, he was being disobeyed and disregarded in so many places, by priests and even by bishops. He knew "learned" scholars despised him, and wished their authority to take the place of the Apostolic voice.

    In a cry coming deep from his holy heart, the Pope summoned all the Church to understand what love for the Pope, any Pope, the one who holds the Keys, truly entails: a hard message that, exactly one century later, must be heard and obeyed by the clergy and by the lay faithful.

    ________________________________


    Distracted with so many occupations, it is easy to forget the things that lead to perfection in priestly life; it is easy [for the priest] to delude himself and to believe that, by busying himself with the salvation of the souls of others, he consequently works for his own sanctification. Alas, let not this delusion lead you to error, because nemo dat quod nemo habet [no one gives what he does not have]; and, in order to sanctify others, it is necessary not to neglect any of the ways proposed for the sanctification of our own selves.

    ...

    The Pope is the guardian of dogma and of morals; he is the custodian of the principles that make families sound, nations great, souls holy; he is the counsellor of princes and of peoples; he is the head under whom no one feels tyrannized because he represents God Himself; he is the supreme father who unites in himself all that may exist that is loving, tender, divine.

    It seems incredible, and is even painful, that there be priests to whom this recommendation must be made, but we are regrettably in our age in this hard, unhappy, situation of having to tell priests: love the Pope!

    And how must the Pope be loved? Non verbo neque lingua, sed opere et veritate. [Not in word, nor in tongue, but in deed, and in truth - 1 Jn iii, 18] When one loves a person, one tries to adhere in everything to his thoughts, to fulfill his will, to perform his wishes. And if Our Lord Jesus Christ said of Himself, "si quis diligit me, sermonem meum servabit," [if any one love me, he will keep my word - Jn xiv, 23] therefore, in order to demonstrate our love for the Pope, it is necessary to obey him.

    Therefore, when we love the Pope, there are no discussions regarding what he orders or demands, or up to what point obedience must go, and in what things he is to be obeyed; when we love the Pope, we do not say that he has not spoken clearly enough, almost as if he were forced to repeat to the ear of each one the will clearly expressed so many times not only in person, but with letters and other public documents; we do not place his orders in doubt, adding the facile pretext of those unwilling to obey - that it is not the Pope who commands, but those who surround him; we do not limit the field in which he might and must exercise his authority; we do not set above the authority of the Pope that of other persons, however learned, who dissent from the Pope, who, even though learned, are not holy, because whoever is holy cannot dissent from the Pope.

    This is the cry of a heart filled with pain, that with deep sadness I express, not for your sake, dear brothers, but to deplore, with you, the conduct of so many priests, who not only allow themselves to debate and criticize the wishes of the Pope, but are not embarrassed to reach shameless and blatant disobedience, with so much scandal for the good and with so great damage to souls.

    Saint Pius X
    Allocution Vi ringrazio to priests on the 50th anniversary of the Apostolic Union
    November 18, 1912

    Offline Sigismund

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    Pope St. Pius X on Obedience to the Pope
    « Reply #1 on: November 22, 2012, 08:50:24 PM »
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  • I suspect that they might say that it is one thing to love a pope like St. Pius X and quite another to love one like John Paul II.
    Stir up within Thy Church, we beseech Thee, O Lord, the Spirit with which blessed Josaphat, Thy Martyr and Bishop, was filled, when he laid down his life for his sheep: so that, through his intercession, we too may be moved and strengthen by the same Spir


    Offline Ambrose

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    Pope St. Pius X on Obedience to the Pope
    « Reply #2 on: November 22, 2012, 09:39:23 PM »
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  • If St. Pius X's teaching does not fit about how a Catholic should love the pope, then one must ask is this man really the pope?   St. Pius X was not teaching Catholics about how to love a saintly pope, he was teaching Catholics how to love a pope.  

    There is no way to apply his teaching to the Vatican II "popes."  
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic

    Offline Santo Subito

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    Pope St. Pius X on Obedience to the Pope
    « Reply #3 on: November 23, 2012, 02:31:09 PM »
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  • Is Pius X teaching a sort of papolotry here?

    Offline Sunbeam

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    Pope St. Pius X on Obedience to the Pope
    « Reply #4 on: November 23, 2012, 03:43:47 PM »
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  • SS, Did you mean “PAPOLATRY”? ... as, for instance, is evident here:



    Offline Ambrose

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    Pope St. Pius X on Obedience to the Pope
    « Reply #5 on: November 23, 2012, 07:35:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: Santo Subito
    Is Pius X teaching a sort of papolotry here?


    Can you define "papolotry" using a Catholic source?
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic

    Offline Santo Subito

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    Pope St. Pius X on Obedience to the Pope
    « Reply #6 on: November 23, 2012, 07:47:16 PM »
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  • Ambrose,

    I suppose I could, but I think it would be more useful for me to elaborate on what I meant. I said "a sort of papolotry." I used "sort of" because I'm not sure that's exactly the word I'm looking for, but it's close. What I mean to ask is, is Pius X saying here that all Catholics need to give absolute and unquestioning obedience to every papal desire no matter how expressed with absolutely no independent thought? In other words, is he trying to say the pope is an absolute dictator and we should not question anything he says, does, or wishes?

    Offline Ambrose

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    Pope St. Pius X on Obedience to the Pope
    « Reply #7 on: November 23, 2012, 08:22:09 PM »
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  • Quote from: Santo Subito
    Ambrose,

    I suppose I could, but I think it would be more useful for me to elaborate on what I meant. I said "a sort of papolotry." I used "sort of" because I'm not sure that's exactly the word I'm looking for, but it's close. What I mean to ask is, is Pius X saying here that all Catholics need to give absolute and unquestioning obedience to every papal desire no matter how expressed with absolutely no independent thought? In other words, is he trying to say the pope is an absolute dictator and we should not question anything he says, does, or wishes?


    I appreciate your honesty.  It is my belief that in today's time Catholics no longer know how they bond with the Pope.  There was once a time, not too long ago that Catholics did love the Pope in the way St. Pius X talks about.  They loved him as a father, were excited to see him or hear news about him.  When the Pope was sick or dying it greatly disturbed Catholics.  On matters of doctrine or teaching, Catholics were excited to hear what the pope was saying.  

    There is a bond between Catholics and the Pope that cannot be described except the way St. Pius X described it.  It is a bond of love, that connects us to our Holy Father.  The office of the Pope was not created by man, it is an office created by Our Lord, and it is to this office that the Pope is the head of the Church, our spiritual ruler and protector who leads us to Heaven.  Catholics love the Pope, trust the pope, and willingly obey and learn from the Pope.

    We have not seen this bond exist between Catholics and the anti-popes, there is only discord and distrust of these men.  This is why you are having trouble with this.  When a pope comes again, and the bond is once again created between yourself and the Pope, you will experience what St. Pius X describes.  
    The Council of Trent, The Catechism of the Council of Trent, Papal Teaching, The Teaching of the Holy Office, The Teaching of the Church Fathers, The Code of Canon Law, Countless approved catechisms, The Doctors of the Church, The teaching of the Dogmatic


    Offline Capt McQuigg

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    Pope St. Pius X on Obedience to the Pope
    « Reply #8 on: November 23, 2012, 10:50:36 PM »
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  • I'm surprised that Santo Subito has even heard of Pope St. Pius X.  

    I was under the impression that, in the eyes of Santo Subito, the first pope was John XXIII.  I certainly know that novus ordite literature only goes back to John XXIII.

     

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