Author Topic: Pope St. Pius X Against Feeneyism (Read 2567 times)

stevusmagnus · « **on:** October 03, 2009, 09:05:32 AM »

From his catechism:

http://www.cin.org/users/james/ebooks/master/pius/psacr-b.htm

17 Q: Can the absence of Baptism be supplied in any other way?

A: The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire.

Was Pope St. Pius X a heretic?

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #1 on:** October 03, 2009, 09:10:40 AM »

Archbishop Lefebvre

http://www.stthomasmoresspx.com/lefebvremass.htm

"Protestants or Buddhists who achieve their salvation through an act of love for God - in effect, implicitly a baptism of desire - do so through Christ and His Church. "

Is Archbishop Lefebvre a heretic?

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #2 on:** October 03, 2009, 09:18:09 AM »

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #3 on:** October 03, 2009, 09:20:29 AM »

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #4 on:** October 03, 2009, 09:21:44 AM »

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #5 on:** October 03, 2009, 09:24:31 AM »

Pope Pius IX

<Quanto conficiamur moerore> (1863: DS 2866): "God...in His supreme goodness and clemency, by no means allows anyone to be punished with eternal punishments who does not have the guilt of voluntary fault.

Was Pope Pius IX a heretic?

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #6 on:** October 03, 2009, 09:27:07 AM »

Holy Office, Aug 9, 1949, condemning doctrine of L. Feeney (DS 3870):

"It is not always required that one be actually incorporated as a member of the Church, but this at least is required: that one adhere to it in wish and desire. It is not always necessary that this be explicit... but when a man labors under invincible ignorance, God accepts even an implicit will, called by that name because it is contained in the good disposition of soul in which a man wills to conform his will to the will of God."

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #7 on:** October 03, 2009, 09:28:21 AM »

St. Justin Martyr, <Apology> 1.46 (c. 150 AD): "Christ is the Logos
[Divine Word] of whom the whole race of men partake. Those who lived according to Logos are Christians, even if they were considered atheists, such as, among the Greeks, Socrates and Heraclitus."

<Apology> 2.10:" Christ... was and is the Logos who is in everyone,
and foretold through the prophets the things that were to come, and taught these things in person after becoming like to us in feeling."

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #8 on:** October 03, 2009, 09:32:15 AM »

St. Gregory of nαzιanzus,

<Oration> 18.5 [at funeral of his father, a convert]:(c. 374 AD): "He was ours even before he was of our fold. His way of living made him such. For just as many of ours are not with us, whose life makes them other from our body [the Church], so many of those outside belong to us, who by their way of life anticipate the faith and need [only] the name, having the reality."

stevusmagnus · « **Reply #9 on:** October 03, 2009, 09:33:57 AM »

St. Augustine, <City of God>

18.47: (413-26 AD): "Nor do I think the
Jєωs would dare to argue that no one pertained to God except the Israelites, from the time that Israel came to be... they cannot deny that there were certain men even in other nations who pertained to the true Israelites, the citizens of the fatherland above, not by earthly but by heavenly association."

Jehanne · « **Reply #10 on:** October 03, 2009, 10:26:42 AM »

My challenge to you was to provide any quotation from before 1800 where the Church taught the heresy of "implicit faith," embraced, unfortunately, by Pius IX, Pius X, Pius XII, and Archbishop Archbishop Lefebvre. Saint Thomas, once again, speaks the mind of the Church:

"Unbelief has a double sense. First, it can be taken purely negatively; thus a man is called an unbeliever solely because he does not possess faith. Secondly, by way of opposition to faith; thus when a man refuses to hear of the faith or even contemns it, according to Isaiah, Who has believed our report? This is where the full nature of unbelief, properly speaking is found, and where the sin lies.

If, however, unbelief be taken just negatively, as in those who have heard nothing about the faith, it bears the character, not of fault, but of penalty, because their ignorance of divine things is the result of the sin of our first parents. Those who are unbelievers in this sense are condemned on account of other sins, which cannot be forgiven without faith; they are not condemned for the sin of unbelief." (Summa Theologica II, II, 10, 1.)

This issue has been resolved, at least for me.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #11 on:** October 03, 2009, 10:36:56 AM »

Not to curb your enthusiasm, but these points have been made here and elsewhere, repeatedly.

Jehanne · « **Reply #12 on:** October 03, 2009, 12:30:37 PM »

Quote from: gladius_veritatis

Not to curb your enthusiasm, but these points have been made here and elsewhere, repeatedly.

Not sure if your reply was directed to me or not. Implicit Faith was condemned by Pope Gregory XVI:

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Greg16/g16singu.htm
http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Greg16/g16mirar.htm

Caminus · « **Reply #13 on:** October 03, 2009, 12:52:32 PM »

Quote from: Jehanne

My challenge to you was to provide any quotation from before 1800 where the Church taught the heresy of "implicit faith," embraced, unfortunately, by Pius IX, Pius X, Pius XII, and Archbishop Archbishop Lefebvre. Saint Thomas, once again, speaks the mind of the Church:

Would you please stop calling things 'heresy' that are not heretical? That is extremely stupid and annoying.

gladius_veritatis · « **Reply #14 on:** October 03, 2009, 01:57:21 PM »

Quote from: Jehanne

Not sure if your reply was directed to me or not.

No. It was to stevus. Sorry.