Author Topic: Pope says married men could be ordained if worlds bishops agree (Read 2282 times)

mobius · « **on:** April 16, 2014, 11:29:55 AM »

bowler · « **Reply #1 on:** April 16, 2014, 08:27:15 PM »

From:The Life of Fr. De Smet, Apostle of the Rockies:

Pg 176 -
How is the phenomenal success of these missions to be explained? Many of the Indians possessed admirable natural virtues; they but needed to know Christianity to embrace it. Even the most degraded had preserved a high ideal of the greatness of the power of God. Blasphemy was unknown among them: not presuming to address the “Great Spirit,” they entreated their manitous to intercede for them. Superstition if you will, but beneath it was a religious sentiment which the missionary had only to enlighten and direct. None held back through false pride or prejudice. Even the Sioux, the proudest of the Western tribes, compared themselves to children bereft of a father’s guiding hand, and to the ignorant animals of the prairie, and with touching humility begged the missionary to “take pity on them.”
Such elevated, upright souls could, moreover, appreciate the chastity of the Catholic priesthood. With rare discernment, the Indian understood that, belonging as he does to all men, a priest cannot give himself to one person, and not for an instant did they hesitate to choose the Black Robe, who had consecrated his life to them, rather than the minister in lay dress, installed in a comfortable home with wife and children, devoted to the interests of his family, giving only the time that remained to distributing Bibles”.

Pg 52 - The Indians, meanwhile, were not overlooked. Dispossessed of their lands and driven west by the whites, they now found refuge and support in the Catholic Church. A considerable number of them, whose fathers had been instructed and baptized by the Jesuits, were well disposed toward Catholicity. Protestant ministers made repeated attempts to gain their confidence, but were always coldly received." "What had they to do," asked the Indians, "with married preachers, men who wore no crucifix, and said no rosary? They wanted only the Black Robes to teach them how to serve God. They even went so far as to appeal to the President of the United States, asking that the married ministers might be recalled and Catholic priests sent in their place."

Pg 117 - I was given the place of honor in the chief's tent, who, surrounded by forty of his braves, addressed me in the following words: 'Black Robe, this is the happiest day of our lives, for to-day, for the first time, we see in our midst a man who is near to the Great Spirit. These are the principal warriors of my tribe. I have invited them to the feast I have prepared for you, that they may never forget the great day.""'

It seems strange that with the savages the fact of being a Catholic priest merited a triumphal reception for the lowly missionary, while in other times, and to men proud of their civilization, he would have been the object of suspicion. During the repast the great chief showered attentions on his guest, even to giving him a mouthful of his own food to chew, a refined usage among his tribe.

At night, after the missionary had retired and was about to fall asleep, he saw the chief who had received him with so much honor, enter his tent. Brandishing a knife that gleamed in the light of the torch, he said: "Black Robe, are you afraid?" The missionary, taking the chief's hand, placed it on his breast and replied: "See if my heart beats more rapidly than usual! Why should I be afraid? You have fed me with your own hands, and I am as safe in your tent as I would be in my father's house." Flattered by this reply, the Blackfoot renewed his professions of friendship; he had wished only to test the confidence of his guest.

Pg 86 - Protestant ministers tried to compete with the Catholic priests; but between a salaried official who distributed tracts to inquisitive members of the tribe, and the missionary, devoted body and soul to their interests, the Indians did not hesitate to make a choice." They refused the most alluring offers from Protestants and came from all directions to ask for a Black Robe to show them the way to heaven.

"After five years' residence with the Otoes, the Protestant minister has not yet baptized one person, and the greater part of the Protestant missionaries who overrun the Indian Territory make no better showing." (Letter of Father De Smet to Father Verhaegen, June, 1838.)

poche · « **Reply #2 on:** April 17, 2014, 03:07:36 AM »

An Austrian-born missionary bishop in Brazil recounted a recent conversation with Pope Francis on the ordination of married men to the priesthood. The bishop met with the Pope on April 4.

“I told him that as bishop of Brazil’s largest diocese with 800 church communities and 700,000 faithful I only had 27 priests, which means that our communities can only celebrate the Eucharist twice or three times a year at the most,” said Bishop Erwin Kräutler of the Territorial Prelature of Xingu, according to a report in The Tablet.

“The Pope explained that he could not take everything in hand personally from Rome,” he added. “We local bishops, who are best acquainted with the needs of our faithful, should be corajudos, that is ‘courageous’ in Spanish, and make concrete suggestions … Regional and national bishops’ conferences should seek and find consensus on reform and we should then bring up our suggestions for reform in Rome.”

http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=21137

TKGS · « **Reply #3 on:** April 17, 2014, 05:40:01 AM »

Quote from: bowler

From:The Life of Fr. De Smet, Apostle of the Rockies:

Your post about the life of this great missionary is great, except that it has no relevance to the topic. It would only be relevant if the Conciliar sect was interested in converting anyone to the Catholic Faith.

To the Conciliar hierarchy, conversions are abhorrent. They despise even the thought of conversions from non-Catholic religions. In fact, their New Evangelization is not about converting others to Catholicism but about converting the few Catholics who remain in their midst to the New Faith.

Michael Voris recently had one of his videos in which he went all "ga-ga" over the New Evangelization of John Paul 2. He claimed that the purpose of the New Evangelization was to bring fallen away Catholics back to the fold. Apparently, he had never been a part of any New Evangelization program.

Before escaping the Novus Ordo, the archdiocese started the "Disciples in Mission" program, which is one of the New Evangelization programs. We were told that it was to give us the tools to Evangelize and bring people to the faith. After three sessions, I asked the "facilitator" when we were going to learn about evangelization. He told me that we don't. What we were doing, that is, reading scripture and discussing our feelings about applying those scriptural passages to every-day life situations and discussing how we feel about various doctrinal questions (where the answers are absolutely not provided) was pretty much the whole enchilada.

He and I both concluded that the New Evangelization wasn't about us evangelizing others, but to evangelize us into the New Religion of Vatican II. Fortunately, we both escaped from the Novus Ordo and found a traditional chapel. I with my family and he, unfortunately, alone (his wife and adult children still attend the Novus Ordo).

But, still, thank you for posting this. I think it will be a very interesting history of truly great Catholic missionaries. I've added it to my list of books to search for.

Matthew · « **Reply #4 on:** April 17, 2014, 09:43:20 AM »

The Life of Fr. De Smet is one of my favorite TAN books that I read.

I highly recommend it. Very good for one's Faith, and the whole story took place not that long ago. It's not ancient history or anything.

Thanks for the quotes, bowler. It really does illustrate the importance of clerical celibacy.

And as a man who attended Seminary for several years, I am totally against the idea of a married man being a priest. I know just how different those vocations are. I was halfway to being a priest, and now I'm married. As much as I wanted to be a priest back then, I would never want to be married *and* a priest.

Part of being a priest is having the Faith be your life. You can't divide yourself between serving God like a single person and taking care of a family. "Jack of all trades, master of none." But a priest has to be a "master" or he'll end up losing his soul. You don't become a priest by half measures, or part time.

When it comes to being a priest, it's "Go hard, or go home!" All or nothing.

PerEvangelicaDicta · « **Reply #5 on:** April 17, 2014, 10:19:31 AM »

from the link that mobius posted... at the very bottom, referncing pictures:

Quote

Above: Lay Catholics have become familiar with the sight of married priests who were formerly in the Anglican or Lutheran Churches, or who minister in international dioceses of Eastern Rite Churches such as the Maronite Church (pictured). Photo: CNS

That was the point of these installations all along, adding to the body of work that deconstructs the Faith into an unholy mess, little by little. And the frogs in boiling water don't even realize they are cooked and no longer Catholic.

As to the conversation Poche posted, more insidious machinations by the clergy who represent themselves as men of Christ and His Church. Betrayers all.

Nishant · « **Reply #6 on:** April 17, 2014, 10:30:41 AM »

Even the suggestion is utter madness, any who go through with this will lose their souls and cause the damnation of countless others. We must pray much.

Our Lady said this to St. Bridget,

Quote

Once it occurred to a person deeply engaged in prayer, to hear a voice saying to her: "You, to whom it has been granted to hear and to see spiritual things, listen now to what I want to reveal to you regarding this archbishop who stated that if he were the pope, he would grant license to all priests to marry, believing and thinking that this would be more pleasing to God than to see so many priests leading such dissolute lives. He further said that, if they married, they would avoid so many sins of the flesh. And even if he had not understood the will of God in all this, he was nonetheless a friend of God. Now I am about to declare to you the will of God in this matter, because I personally gave birth to God, and you will let your archbishop know this, as you address him in the following terms:

"Circuмcision was given to Abraham long before the law was given to Moses, and in Abraham's time, men were governed according to their own understanding and will, and nonetheless many of them were friends of God. But after the law had been given to Moses, it was then no longer pleasing to God that men should live according to their own will. The same occurred with the precious body of my Son, because when the holy Sacrament of the altar was established, and after He had ascended to heaven, this ancient law was still observed, whereby priests would live in carnal wedlock, and nonetheless many of them were friends of God, all the more so as they simply believed that this was pleasing to God, as it had been pleasing to Him during the time of the Jєωs, and this observance was followed for many years by the Christian apostles. But this customary observance was a detestable abomination in the eyes of the entire court of heaven, and in my own eyes, since I had given birth to the body of my Son, to see married people touch with their hands the precious body of my Son in the holy Sacrament. For the Jєωs, in their old law, had only a figurative foreshadowing of this sacrament. But Christians now have Truth incarnate, namely Jesus Christ, truly God and truly man in this most holy sacrament.

But after the priests of old had followed this observance for some time, God, through an outpouring of his Spirit, inspired the pope in his heart, to decree that henceforth the priests who consecrate the precious body of Jesus Christ, should no longer marry or enjoy the base delights of the flesh. And from then on, through a divine order, and a just judgment of God, it was justly decreed that priests should live in chastity and continence of the flesh, failing which they would be damned and excommunicated before God, and would deserve to be removed from the priestly position. However, those who would make true amends, with firm resolve to sin no more, would obtain God's mercy.

You must also know that if any pope were to give priests license to enter into carnal wedlock, he himself would be damned by God with a sentence, as would be applied to someone who had committed a great sin, and who by right should have his eyes plucked out, his lips cut off, with his nose and ears, his feet and hands, and whose corpse should be covered with blood and frozen with cold; and further, his dead body would be handed over to wild animals. And the same would happen to a pope who would give priests license to marry, contrary to the above divine order, as this pope would be suddenly deprived of spiritual sight, of spiritual hearing, of spiritual words and spiritual works. And all of his spiritual wisdom would spiritually fail. And moreover, his soul would descend to hell , to be eternally tormented there as a prey for the demons. Even if Saint Gregory had established this law, he would never obtain mercy from God, if he did not first revoke it

Pope St. Gregory the Great to whom Our Lady refers was one of the greatest Popes ever, showing how serious Heaven considers this.

poche · « **Reply #7 on:** April 17, 2014, 10:49:47 PM »

The problem with all this is that we haven't heard anything from the one who is quoted from. There is no independent confirmation. What did Pope Francis really say?

TKGS · « **Reply #8 on:** April 18, 2014, 06:06:36 AM »

Quote from: poche

The problem with all this is that we haven't heard anything from the one who is quoted from. There is no independent confirmation. What did Pope Francis really say?

So you think Bishop Erwin Kräutler, Bishop of Xingu, is a liar?

Matthew · « **Reply #9 on:** May 09, 2014, 01:44:06 PM »

This thread needs to get un-buried.

Matto · « **Reply #10 on:** May 09, 2014, 01:51:50 PM »

If priests get married and do not sin in their marriages, they will have many children. How on earth will the Church afford to pay for the expenses of not only many priests, but the wife and ten children each of those priests will have. Maybe many of those priests will damn themselves by using NFP (without grave reason). I don't know.

Marlelar · « **Reply #11 on:** May 10, 2014, 05:28:08 PM »

A true priest is an unmarried man who devotes his entire life to God
A protestant minister is a married man who devotes part of his life to God.

Marsha

Phyllo · « **Reply #12 on:** May 11, 2014, 12:53:11 PM »

Quote from: Matto

If priests get married and do not sin in their marriages, they will have many children. How on earth will the Church afford to pay for the expenses of not only many priests, but the wife and ten children each of those priests will have. Maybe many of those priests will damn themselves by using NFP (without grave reason). I don't know.

These are my thoughts exactly. In today's times we are lucky if we can support our own families let alone the families of the priests. And how much time will he be able to devote to his "flock" outside of his family?